Official Luthiers Forum!
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/

I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43974		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Linus [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Image


What have you been using to light your work as you rout inlays? I trace the pearl with a fine pencil, have overhead (bright) fluorescent lighting, and wear an optical magnifier headset with an led light built in. I am STILL having a hell of a time seeing the pencil outlines as I rout.

They are easy to see until I bring the dremel router base over them. Then the shadow it casts makes the lines virtually disappear.

Is there a bright white pencil I could be using instead? Some other lighting?

I'm getting good results but it takes longer than necessary, gives me a headache, and I'm getting unnecessary gaps at time because I couldn't see clearly enough.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
I've never used a pencil for such inlays. I tack glue the piece on and carefully scribe around it with a scalpel. Remove the inlay and rub chalk dust into the scribed line.
Author:  Linus [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Michael.N. wrote:
I've never used a pencil for such inlays. I tack glue the piece on and carefully scribe around it with a scalpel. Remove the inlay and rub chalk dust into the scribed line.



Do you have any problems with chalk dust getting into wood pores? If so, how do you keep that from happening?
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Fluorescent lights pulse, causing the light to flicker at high speeds, making it difficult to use for detail work. Whenever I am checking sanded wood, I use an incandescent inspection light to find scratches that I missed. I would use incandescent or natural light, with the fluorescent lights turned off, or maybe a strong headband lamp.

Alex
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Some folks place the piece in position, spray a mist of shellac over the area, then dust it with some white powder (chalk, corn starch, flour ?)
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Linus wrote:
Michael.N. wrote:
I've never used a pencil for such inlays. I tack glue the piece on and carefully scribe around it with a scalpel. Remove the inlay and rub chalk dust into the scribed line.



Do you have any problems with chalk dust getting into wood pores? If so, how do you keep that from happening?


I think it's a minor problem. Chalk is easily washed out.
Author:  Ben-Had [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Michael.N. wrote:
I've never used a pencil for such inlays. I tack glue the piece on and carefully scribe around it with a scalpel. Remove the inlay and rub chalk dust into the scribed line.

+1
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Scrub with knife then chalk for me also. Just be sure to blow the remaining chalk off before the thing is CAed.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Ben-Had wrote:
Michael.N. wrote:
I've never used a pencil for such inlays. I tack glue the piece on and carefully scribe around it with a scalpel. Remove the inlay and rub chalk dust into the scribed line.

+1


I've tried this and it does work well but it is also time consuming. I am now using a 0.3mm lead pencil (per John Hall's video). I also use an Optivisor and lots of light. By far the best change I made is the inlay tool I got from John that let's plenty of light in and makes it easy to see the work. Before, with a Dremel router base I couldn't see crap.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Even a 0.3 mm pencil leaves a line that is rather vague. Perhaps that is OK in woods with a dark(ish) background where you can use filler but inlaying into light coloured woods and you need real accuracy. A knife point gives that.
Author:  giltzow [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
I copy the inlay with my computer printer. Cut the inlay out of the photo copy and glue it to the wood piece. I then run a coat of thin CA over the photo copy to stiffen it up. Let that dry and then cut it with my dremel and Stew-Mac base. I put a small piece of tape on the router bit that acts like a sweeper to remove cut paper and dust. I always sand away all traces of paper and glue before inlaying the actual pieces. I use a couple of lights set at different angles to completely light the area.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Scribe, line marking chalk, and the Stewmac base with the aquarium pump attached to blow the dust away. Incandescent light up close. You can see your dental burr hit the scribe line a lot of the time and raise a little curl of wood.

I am not married to this method so I'll be following this thread for ideas. For more complex inlays the photocopy idea sounds great.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Scribe, line marking chalk, and the Stewmac base with the aquarium pump attached to blow the dust away. Incandescent light up close. You can see your dental burr hit the scribe line a lot of the time and raise a little curl of wood.

I am not married to this method so I'll be following this thread for ideas. For more complex inlays the photocopy idea sounds great.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
I use the pencil outline, but the biggest improvement was switching to one of the high speed pencil air grinders and a base I made similar to the John Halls one. The dremel is just too slow turning with the real small bits, my Sioux grinder is 70,000 rpm and cuts real smooth.
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/49930-5979a-sioux-tools-straight-pencil-air-die-grinders.html

Fred
Author:  Tom West [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Michael.N. wrote:
I've never used a pencil for such inlays. I tack glue the piece on and carefully scribe around it with a scalpel. Remove the inlay and rub chalk dust into the scribed line.

Same here.........!!
Tom
Author:  DannyV [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Fred Tellier wrote:
I use the pencil outline, but the biggest improvement was switching to one of the high speed pencil air grinders and a base I made similar to the John Halls one. The dremel is just too slow turning with the real small bits, my Sioux grinder is 70,000 rpm and cuts real smooth.
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/49930-5979a-sioux-tools-straight-pencil-air-die-grinders.html

Fred

Pricey little fellow. Does the exhaust air blow the dust away?
Author:  Ken Lewis [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier
I brush on a little liquid whiteout,dries real quick, trace with fine pencil or scribe and route
with air pencil or dremil. I also like the little bases ala. John Hall. Lotsa light and optivisor.

Ken
Author:  RustySP [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
White or silver pencil will work although they are too soft and need to sharpened constantly.
Also, white tempera paint helps.
Author:  Michael [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
My wife has a mechanical pencil that comes with white "lead". The lead is very thin so it draws a thin line. I found it with her sewing supplies so I guess you could buy one at a sewing goods store. I use it mainly for marking ebony bridges and fingerboards. That being said, I use the chalk method on my headstock inlay and level sanding seems to take care of any residual chalk dust.

Michael
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Quote:
Pricey little fellow. Does the exhaust air blow the dust away?


Danny I got it for a good price from a local guy, the exhaust blows up the other end. I had a cheaper one at 40.000 rpm that also did a decent job.

Fred
Author:  Linus [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier
klewis wrote:
I brush on a little liquid whiteout,dries real quick, trace with fine pencil or scribe and route
with air pencil or dremil. I also like the little bases ala. John Hall. Lotsa light and optivisor.

Ken



Do you pore fill Mahogany and Rosewoods first? How do you keep the white out from getting in the pores?
Author:  Greg B [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
Scribe lines and chalk for me too. Cleaning up the chalk has never been a problem. I think I tried pencil the first time I tried to do inlay, and couldn't see a thing, plus it isn't very precise.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
I have absolutely nothing against other methods so I am not trying to be disparaging (sheesh, I'm not even sure how to spell that). But..... Pencil can be accurate enough if you have the correct pencil and use it properly - that is assuming 0.1mm-0.2mm is accurate enough. As far as cutting, when I route I normally leave the line then test fit, usually takes a few touch ups with the router before the piece has the final fit. The pencil is easy to see if you have light reflecting off of it in the right direction which means you need an inlay tool with a mostly open frame that doesn't block the light.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
If the pencil is sharp it is every bit as accurate as scribing, I find a softer pencil is a bit easier to see and as Steve says rout to the line and test fit.

Fred
Author:  Pat Foster [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I need help seeing inlay routing lines easier.
I don't use fluorescent lighting for fine, close work. It's soft, non-coherent light, so it doesn't create much shadow or contrast. I prefer Reveal incandescent task lighting, which tends towards daylight and makes things appear sharper. I see better with it. I'll probably switch to LEDs sometime soon.

Also, I wrap a small piece of masking tape around the bit, just above the work, counter-clockwise (against the direction of rotation to keep it from unwrapping) to blow the dust away.

Pat
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/