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| How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44470 |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
I'm thinking about including a bound fingerboard and headplate on my next build. I was wondering how you do it? Bind the fingerboard before gluing to the neck? Do you put a full 1/4" binding on the headstock? Or do you just match the bottom edge with the FB? Tips on how to do it? Pictures? Any help is appreciated. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
I slot it, taper it, then bind it before it gets attached to the neck. Never done a headstock... |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
I bound my Vintage Parlor fretboard with the same ebony I used for the fretboard. I just cut the strips off first and then glued them back on after doing the fret slots. I was going after a specific look with using the same material and rounding the ends of the frets off. I didn't bind the headstock. But here is a shot of what I did. Sorry I don't have any in progress shots but you get the idea. The point was to not have the frets show from the sides and give the round cutout a similar look to the 1800's parlors that had the frets install right on the top. Bob Edit: I did glue the binding on prior to gluing it on the neck. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Ed, I was thinking that would be the way to go. I did see a video on you-tube where he mounted the slotted board on the neck then bound it. it did seem counter-intuitive to me. For the headstock I guess I could just mount the headplate as usual then route around it with a dremel. Rus, That does look nice. Thanks for sharing |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Slot, taper, bind, glue onto neck. Some people include wide purflings on the fingerboard, which are also slotted, and only the binding solid. But if I do purfling, it's usually only one veneer layer, so I just leave that solid too so I can glue it all at once. Clamping the binding can be a bit tricky. I use hide glue, and squeeze the glue out with my fingers at first, and then stick 6-8 strips of masking tape on as tight as I can, and squeeze more with fingers for a couple minutes. Then clean the glue out of the slots with an x-acto knife while it's still wet (for best results, take an old blade with the tip broken off, and grind it to a chisel-type shape). If the binding has a side purfling strip pre-glued to it, you have to be really careful to get it level with the bottom of the fingerboard. Fretting bound boards is more time consuming, trimming away part of the tang to overhang the binding. You can make a tang nipper tool out of a sheet metal nibbling tool, though it still takes a little file work to get the underside of the fret fully flush. Attachment: TangCutter.jpg I like headstock binding to be equal to the headplate thickness, though there are other styles that can look good, especially if side purfling is involved. Dremel works for routing, or you can do it by hand with gramil and chisel. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Do the FB before you glue it to the neck. I use my Fleishman binding cutter to do the headstock. Just take off the depth of the headplate and then it will come out flush with the nut slot if you can picture that. Bind the headstock BEFORE gluing the FB on. It doesn't work so well the other way............... so I hear.  That's one way. Here's some other ways. viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10285&p=141737&hilit=+binding+headstock# That's an old one. |
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| Author: | Goat Rock Ukulele [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Bind the fingerboard first. I use 1/8" shock cord as a clamp for the finger board binding. Install any dots, then scrape the bottom flush and drum sand the binding and dots flush, finish sand by hand and install frets. Then glue to the neck. I use a piece of marble shaped like the fingerboard for a caul on top of the frets. My headstock is usually a jigsaw puzzle type inlay glued to 1/16" maple ply. Then I glue that to a piece of 1/4" MDF shape that to final headstock shape (I usually use a template and router) and use the same binding channel cutting setup used for the instrument top. Then drum sand the inlay and bound headstock flush, then saw off the excess MDF and drum sand the back down to the 1/16" ply. then I take that finished inlay/headstock an glue it to the roughed out head using a smooth sanded nut as a spacer (the nut fits perfectly every time this way). Then saw off the excess on the bandsaw and carefully sand or file down to the binding. It sounds like a lot but it is a very logical progression and allows me to do very substantial headstock inly and binding quickly. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Joe Beaver wrote: Do you put a full 1/4" binding on the headstock? Or do you just match the bottom edge with the FB?Tips on how to do it? Hi Joe. I never liked the look of an unbound fingerboard, so I bind virtually all of my guitars, and many headstocks, and I often use both top and side purflings. You've identified a key aesthetic issue regarding height of the binding on the headstock and fingerboard, and how they line up. A look I don't like (although it is how I started) is in the following picture, where the intersection of the headtock and fingerboard binding looks awkward: Attachment: Gemini 2009 414.jpg The look I go for is more like the following two photos, where the bindings/purflings line up in a pleasing way, both from the side and from the top: Attachment: Aussie dreadnought 0813 007.JPG Attachment: Aussie dreadnought 0813 011.JPG It looks like the headplate is extra thick, but it's not. The key is a little wedge added to raise the point where the headplate meets the nut (do NOT do anything at the other end of the neck until the headplate is glues and cut to length at the nut): Attachment: Ancient kauri OM 037.JPG I cut the headstock binding channel with the same Williams jig I use for the body. I clamp the neck to that the headplate is level, then cut around the headstock, to a depth that intersects the fingerboard plane: Attachment: Gemini 2009 142.jpg I fit the binding and purfling pieces one-by-one, position with binding tape and glue with CA (of course the miters are the hard part): Attachment: Ancient kauri OM 135.JPG I'll walk through the fingerboard in the next post. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Like others have mentioned, I bind the fingerboard before attaching to neck. The board is slotted and tapered, such that the width is reduced by two times the summed thickness of binding and any top purflings. I first add the top purfling (with Titebond) and then the side purflings with CA. The following photo shows the clamping to the side purfling to the bottom edge of the binding, where I check carefully for alignment before wicking in thin CA: Attachment: IMG_0128.JPG My fingerboards have a curved end which is also bound. I start binding by gluing a short piece of binding+purfling to the end with CA: Attachment: IMG_0132.JPG The side pieces are fit with miters at the end, and clamped into position -- wax paper beneath, and a strip of UHMW plastic as a glue-proof caul. Once I'm happy with the fit, I wick in the CA, being careful not to get much if any into the slot (where it's a PITA to remove!): Attachment: IMG_0142.JPG The bound fingerboard is cleaned up, side dots added (I usually inlay shell dots), and the fingerboard is ready to attach: Attachment: IMG_0156.JPG Fretting is done after finish, using a tang nipper (Stewmac, I think) to fit the fret over the binding. |
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| Author: | mkellyvrod [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Very nice, Tim. Thanks for the pictures!!! |
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| Author: | ernie [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Tim , kudos and cheers vy nice clean and impressive work. Just started binding my FB/s too. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
There is no right way or wrong way. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
I always bind the peghead veneer before I glue it on to the neck. No fuss, no muss. Same with the F/B and I use cya on the F/B.     
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Great stuff guys! Tim, that is an excellent guide to 'how to do it'. Love your work!!! Thank you for posting. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Haans, good looking work!!! |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
I routed the headstock binding after the headplate is mounted, and made it the same thickness as the headplate rather than having the Gibson look.... (picture 1 from Tim's first post). However one thing that I always have trouble with is mitering. It sounds simple but to make it look completely seamless is rather difficult. It would be a lot easier to do the binding off the neck rather than on because oftentimes the chisel would cut too deep, and end up gouging the neck itself. Using plastic binding would make things much easier too. I sometimes wish I could have a precision laser cutter to miter bindings exactly with exacting precision. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Thanks, Tim! I'm gonna try the little ledge trick on my current build. Very clever! Dan |
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| Author: | mkellyvrod [ Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
You learn something new all the time. Haans, it never would have occurred to me to bind the veneer before it's glued to the headstock. Can I ask how thick is your typical veneer, and do you do this on slotheads as well? Thanks! |
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| Author: | Haans [ Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Yea, it came to me when trying to bind F5 pegheads...   Woke up in the middle of the night with cold sweats and realized two things. Shape a 1" or so block to the shape of the peghead and cut off a slice when you need it. Bind it before gluing on the neck. Thickness of the veneer depends on the amount of garbage on the side of the binding. I usually go 1/8", glue it on and sand the veneer and binding flat after glue up. For slots, you rout the slot after it is glued on and the neck shaped to the overlay. Just did one the other day. Just too simple... ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad")
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| Author: | Joe Sallis [ Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Tim, that's a great idea with the wedge. So, just to make sure I understand correctly, you have to make the fingerboard plane of the neck blank longer to allow for the wedge to be glued on. Is this right? |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Joe Sallis wrote: Tim, that's a great idea with the wedge. So, just to make sure I understand correctly, you have to make the fingerboard plane of the neck blank longer to allow for the wedge to be glued on. Is this right? If I understand your question correctly, my answer is "yes". After making the scarf joint, I do all operations at the headstock end, volute, head plate, thicknessing, binding, etc., before attaching the heel block. By the time I'm done, the nut position is established and I can measure from there to attach the heel block. Is that what you were asking? Always a good idea to list out the various steps and their sequence so you don't suddenly find you've created a problem -- like cutting a neck blank too short. |
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| Author: | Joe Sallis [ Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
Tim, you did understand and you've answered my question, thanks. One more thing, was this your idea or did you take it from other sources? I'm very impressed by it. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
I don't recall getting this idea from a book, although I'd certainly seen the "look" elsewhere and wanted to recreate it. My first idea to accomplish it was to laminate a thicker headplate, but I realized that if it wasn't exactly the same thickness everywhere after glue up, I might end up with slivers of laminate under the router cut. The idea of laminating and binding a thick headplate and then gluing it as an assembly didn't appeal (although others obviously make it work). I "saw" the wedge while staring at the headplate and scarfed neck blank and figured it would be easier and less prone to screw ups. Having said that, I doubt very much it is "original" as an idea -- very few things in lutherie are truly "new". The wedge is completely hidden, so can be made out of anything. You do the final surfacing of the headstock with wedge installed on a sanding board so it is completely flat before gluing on the headplate. Then cut the headplate+wedge at the nut to achieve the thickness you want, and trim off the waste. The trickiest part of the routing for the binding is to get the depth exactly right so that the bottom cut edge intersects exactly the back corner of the nut surface (see my second picture). I should point out that, while the fingerboard is 1/4", the binding after sanding the surface radius is somewhat less, and the binding on the headstock is a little bit less than that of the fingerboard to make it all look right. Do a mock up if you're unsure! |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
I you prefer peghead binding that is the same depth as the face veneer, it is much easier to bind it before installation. The same applies to fingerboard binding. Since I like to do things the easy way, that is how I have done both. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you Bind a Fingerboard and headstock? |
John, I'm thinking I'll give it a try as you describe. |
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