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Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
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Author:  Josh H [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
I’m looking at wide-belt thickness sanders and I’m looking for some feedback from those who own them.

Can all your thickness sanding needs be met with a wide-belt? What is the finest grit you can use? Do any of you keep a smaller thickness sander around for shorter/thinner pieces? Or can you get around that with a sled? Are there any pluses to a drum sander over a wide belt (other than that the drum sanders are cheaper)?

Interested to hear what size/model of wide-belt you own.

Thanks
Author:  uvh sam [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
We have a time saver widebelt (40"?) and I love it almost as much as my child. I have used up to 220 grit but you have to be careful about how much stock you take off as they load up pretty quickly. 80 grit belts, if you aren't too hard on it, will last about 50 guitars worth of sandng. Minimum length is about 15" , but if you attach a push stick, you can sand 7" or shorter and all of it down to about .030". A longer piece can be sanded to .020" accurately.
The Downside.
They need a lot of power (ours is three phase)
They need good dust collection
They are expensive
They are really heavy, put it where it's going cause you won't want to move it.
Overall , the nut and saddle are the only pieces that don't go through the timesaver at one point or another and I couldn't imagine having to build guitars with out it.
.........um.....I mean I like ours :)
Author:  Jfurry [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
I just bought a jet 40" with oscillating feature. 330 pounds cost some where in the low 4k range. Don't see how you could build without one.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Jeff, do you mean an oscillating drum sander?

Josh, I think I can say the thing I miss the very most (and maybe the only) about working at Larrivee was the 36" Timesaver. A dream, a treat, a vision of loveliness...er, well. You get the drift.

I've been looking around a lot for them, and they come up used for good prices periodically, but they're pretty complex machines with a lot of things that can go wrong.

As far as utility goes, I've only used the Timesaver which is just a wonderful beast, you can sneak up on things .001 at a time, or hog it down half a mm at a time. The oscillating platen made 100 grit a useable surface to bend and brace at.

Thing is, it's unlikely that you'll be able to get one that size, unless you're going big, but there are a number of attractive 24" ones which should be adequate.

Anyway, I've rambled enough to not even be sure what my point was.

Oh yeah! If you get one that functions right, you will weep tears of loss as you realize how many wasted hours of your mortal existance have been unnecessarily spent using other means to thickness sand your wood.
Author:  Jfurry [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Thickness drum? Guess ya got me there, are we talking about a edge sander?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
That's what I'm asking...what kind of machine are you talking about?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Image?
Author:  Josh H [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Thanks guys. I am talking about machines like the Timesavers, but wasn't aware of that brand. For what I have in mind I may be looking at jumping to 100-200 instruments per year, and I don't think the old 16-32 performax could handle that. :) Is there any reason I would want more than 24-25 inches in width? Is Timesaver the best brand?
Author:  wbergman [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Another option is to find a specialty lumber supplier or cabinet maker near you with such a sander and have them do your backs and sides. Use your 16-32 for tops, which usually do not plug the grit so much.
Author:  Toonces [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Hi Josh,
I would recommend the Grizzly wide belts because they have been designed with luthiers in mind. You can pass relatively short pieces through them (8" or so) because the rollers are placed very close to the drum. This means things like headstocks can be passed through them without any trouble. For nut/saddles and other small pieces - I will often use a board with double stick tape -- as long as the board has been evenly dimensioned, you can get an exact height for short pieces.
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
I have a grizzly 15" open end. It works very well. For short stuff, I use a sled with a cross piece and can sand things as short as nut blanks. I don't really worry about any grit other than 80.
Author:  Josh H [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
If the situation I'm looking at materializes than I will be purchasing my own machine. I had wondered about Grizzly as I know a number of you guys have them. Like I said I don't know enough about these machines to know what features to look for and which manufactures offer the best features. In Canada here we have General which is similar to Grizzly. Can any one tell me why Timesavers may be a better or worse choice than Grizzly.
Author:  uvh sam [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
I've only used a time saver. Grizzly tools are ok but I think they are just under industrial grade. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a time saver to you for that amount of production. Every few years you will have to replace a solenoid but that's it. We have had ours for about 14 years with little problem and we use it every day. The customer service is good as well, if you do have a problem a tech will walk you through diagnosing it and get you the replacement part you need. We have never had to have a tech come and fix ours, everything has been user serviceable. It is a great machine. We went from a drum sander to the time saver and I calculated that in the first year of owner ship we saved a month of 40hr weeks in sanding time
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
I'm not sure you'd need to step into a Timesaver. Ours was 80,000. If you're really going to step up to 200 a year, a 15" machine will become really annoying swiftly as you'll be doubling the number of passes required.

The shop fox 24" ones look decent. You're looking at a 5-10k investment new though. Plus they need a compressor line and very very good dust collection.

Beyond that, I don't know what makes one better than another. I would not buy used, as I would want a tech available for assistance and repairs available. But I don't know much about machines.

I'd google down and make some calls to some merchandisers....
Author:  Josh H [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Hmmm, 80,000 is probably out of the price range for what I'm thinking. I wouldn't want a 15" and would probably be looking at a 24".

Maybe this one would be a good choice

http://www.grizzly.com/products/24-10-HP-3-Phase-Platen-Type-Wide-Belt-Sander/G0445
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Josh H wrote:
Hmmm, 80,000 is probably out of the price range for what I'm thinking. I wouldn't want a 15" and would probably be looking at a 24".

Maybe this one would be a good choice

http://www.grizzly.com/products/24-10-HP-3-Phase-Platen-Type-Wide-Belt-Sander/G0445


Do you have 3-phase availability in your shop or a way to deal with it? That is the only downside to the larger units.
Author:  Josh H [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
If this materializes then the shop will have 3-phase.
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Josh H wrote:
If this materializes then the shop will have 3-phase.


That opens a world of possibilities as far as machinery goes.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
We have the Griz 15" open end machine at our school shop. It is fine, nicer than I expected. It takes a 16x48 belt and oscillates so technically it should be able to do a 16" plate in one go. We've done a lot of the 30" plates in 2 passes. There is always a little seam line. With 220 it is crazy smooth, like polished. Really beautiful finish. We mostly run 60 grit and then some quick hand sanding gives a decent finish too, with the oscillation you don't get long scratches.

I used an SCMI in an older shop I worked at. I don't know how old it was when I started using it but it was quirky.

If I had the cash I would get the nicest one with the best service I could. Downtime is such a pain. I haven't had to replace anything yet on that machine and don't have other Griz machines so I cannot speak to that. The best service I have received BY FAR is from Sawstop. Exactly what you hope it would be like. Unfortunately they don't have sanders :).

I use my little 10-32 for purflings and things like that, I'm not sure I would trust the bigger one to hit .010 (actual thickness, not tolerance) but it might, I haven't had to push it like that here.

The 15" one requires a 50 amp fuse and 70psi by itself. A couple machines like that would add up quick although it sounds like with that many guitar to build you'll likely have the juice required!
Author:  Josh H [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Chris Ensor wrote:
Josh H wrote:
If this materializes then the shop will have 3-phase.


That opens a world of possibilities as far as machinery goes.


Yes it does. I'm actually in a shop now that has 3-phase, but I'm on the second floor, making it difficult to move in large equipment. And I don't need 3 phase machines right now. But maybe soon...

Thanks for the info Burton!
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
FWIW,

There are 2 different 24" machines for around 2200$ in my hood, if used doesn't scare you...
Author:  Josh H [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Ed, is that $2200, or $22,000? If you have info can you PM it to me, even just a make and model if you know them.

Anyone ever seen one of the Laguna sanders

http://www.lagunatools.com/Industrial-Division/Industrial-Sanders
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wantedi
I sent a couple emails with ads. I don't know it I'd go with any of them, just saying that he machines are out there if you hunt them down. Myself, I would definitely go new.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Josh, do you know Michael Greenfield in Montreal? If you do contact him. If you don't I will introduce you if you like. When he set up his new shop (a few years back now) he bought a 24" new and local. It is imported but I think it works well for him. He could fill in the details I am sure.

Shane
Author:  Josh H [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wide-belt thickness sander info wanted
Hi Shane, I do know Mike and I will get in touch with him.

Thanks Ed, I think you are right that it is probably wise to buy new. I appreciate you sending along the links anyway.
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