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| Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44680 |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
What satin finish choices are out there that will go over a Zpoxy pore fill that is NOT sanded back to bare wood (thin coat of epoxy still remaining on wood)? Thanks in advance for the help. I have a customer that wants a satin finish. Ed |
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| Author: | Glen H [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
I use Nitro with flattening paste in it over epoxy just fine. I'm not sure I understand what your concern is. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
I sand back my z-poxy and then mix a thin batch (with denatured alcohol) that I wipe on so the guitar has an even look. I also seal the guitar with shellac before spraying lacquer. Probably a good idea if you are considering using a finish you haven't used before. Test pieces are always good too. |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
Glen H wrote: I use Nitro with flattening paste in it over epoxy just fine. I'm not sure I understand what your concern is. Sorry, Glenn, for not explaining better. I've been using shellac (Royal Lac) as a final high gloss finish and I'm pleased with it, but my customer that wants a satin finish. I've never used nitro or varnish or poly. My only concern is finding an easy to apply satin finish. A rattle spray can finish would be OK, but I'm not set up with spraying equipment. Maybe satin laq rattle can is the way to go, after sealing with shellac or vinyl? I'm just looking for suggestions. Level sanding shellac to 2000 leaves a satin finish, but I'm not very happy with that look. Ed |
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| Author: | dnf777 [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
Josh, can you describe briefly how you cut zpoxy with alcohol? I tried to wipe on a thinned coat, and wasn't happy with the result. Seemed to be not completely soluble and didn't set up well. |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
Pad on 3-4 coats of thinned Ace hardware semi gloss poly. |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
I'm sure Josh has it working well for him thinning it with alcohol, but the best method I have found for getting an even, thin coat of Zpoxy is to warm it (not too hot!) with a hairdryer and smooth it out with a foam brush. At the right temperature, it will spread out like paint. Pat |
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| Author: | Glen H [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
Ed Haney wrote: Glen H wrote: I use Nitro with flattening paste in it over epoxy just fine. I'm not sure I understand what your concern is. Sorry, Glenn, for not explaining better. I've been using shellac (Royal Lac) as a final high gloss finish and I'm pleased with it, but my customer that wants a satin finish. I've never used nitro or varnish or poly. My only concern is finding an easy to apply satin finish. A rattle spray can finish would be OK, but I'm not set up with spraying equipment. Maybe satin laq rattle can is the way to go, after sealing with shellac or vinyl? I'm just looking for suggestions. Level sanding shellac to 2000 leaves a satin finish, but I'm not very happy with that look. Ed Ed, personally, in my experience, satin is about as easy to use as it gets. Maybe try a satin varnish (I haven't on a guitar, but plenty of cabinets). When satin dulls down to it's final sheen, it tends to hide orange peel and minor blems. The only caveat is that you can't buff or level-sand afterwards, so what you lay down is what you get. Good luck. |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
Thanks, guys. I do appreciate the input. I did a test panel yesterday with spay can satin nitro over Zpoxy pore fill and my customer saw it this morning and liked it. Right beside it I did my normal panel in mirror finish shellac over Zpoxy which showed off the grain wonderfully. But he wants a satin that will not show fingerprints. So the decision is made. Its satin nitro from a spray can. It should be easier than shellac gloss finish. Ed |
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| Author: | phavriluk [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
About thinning z-poxy with alcohol. I've done it as a matter of course for non-luthierie purposes and I've never had a problem. BUT - - - not all alcohols are made the same. What is needed is solvent grade denatured alcohol, not drugstore rubbing alcohol, which has lots of water in it. The solvent grade alcohol has no water, and it makes a huge difference. And heating the stuff works wonderfully, for me, to thin it out. I've heated mine on a coffee-cup-warming heating plate my daughter gave me a while ago, very easy to use. Microwave works good, too, but easy to over-do. |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Satin finish over Zpoxy pore fill? |
Ed, Satin finishes are not all equal. I have a lot of furniture finish experience and have had many requests for satin finishes and have used packaged satin lacquer as well as flattening agent and although they produce a beautiful finish you will find that satin lacquer is subject to loosing its satin look fairly easily. The worst offender are finger nails, and a close second is rubbing the finish with your hand or some sort of cloth. Finger nails will leave glossy scratches and rubbing it will leave the finish glossier in some places and the original sheen in others. Both of these actions are pretty common on a guitar. You should do an experiment on your test piece to see how that particular finish will hold up. Polyurethane finishes are a bit tougher and are much better at keeping their original sheen but will still gloss up over time. I have tried many methods to get a nice satin finish and the way I do it now works best for me. Instead of spraying the satin on I finish it as I normally would using a gloss finish. Then I use steel wool to get the level of sheen I want. 000 or 0000 will give you a very nice satin finish that will hold up pretty well. I prefer to do it all in one direction with the grain of the wood but have seen guys use circular strokes and get good results. Running them in one direction seems to show off the wood better so that is what I like. The big advantage to doing it that way is that if they ever want to restore the satin it is just a matter of going over it with steel wool again. You are not removing much finish since you use very light pressure so there is no issues of cutting through the finish as long as you have sufficient coverage to begin with. With a spray satin finish the only thing you can do is spray it again to bring back the same sheen. You can always go over it with steel wool then but it will have a different kind of satin look to it than what you originally sprayed on so you may want to make your client aware of that issue. But I have found that even different manufactures of satin finishes can be quite different in how they hold up so I would highly suggest before committing to using a factory package satin lacquer you test it to make sure it will actually hold the satin sheen under the use it will get on a guitar. Bob |
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