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| Spraying Cyanoacrylate http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44681 |
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| Author: | Logan [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
Has anyone ever sprayed cyanoacrylate? The Bourgeois aged tone series has a cyanoacrylate based finish. I'm wondering if anyone else has used it to finish a guitar. It seems like a good product to finish with, very hard, coats should burn in, and short finish schedule. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
I'll take my lung cancer in nitrocellulose... |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
There was a recent thread about it here. |
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| Author: | violinvic [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
I would recommend that you research the MSDS for CA before making it airborne. Wicked stuff. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
I just did a head stock veneer on a completed ukulele using gear-up fill and finish and it came out really nice. It buffed out to a great finish. On the same ukulele I pored filled the back and sides with the same product. That also went well. For the finishing I used the method shown on a video on their site. I used small drops on a folded paper towel and padded it on, sprayed with their accelerator, sanded level with the green 3m polishing paper and repeated this four times. I then sanded up through a few of the grades of the polishing paper and buffed it out. The whole process took about 20 minutes. I could see doing a ukulele this way, not trying to spray it. When padding it on you get a very thin layer. A larger instrument might be a bit intense fume wise. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
The thought of attempting to spray CA is going to give me nightmares. As they say - please don't try this at home. For that matter, don't try it anywhere. Maybe if you donned a full astronaut suit and set up a disposable spray booth with a Teflon fan and ductwork, maybe. Short of that, no. I wouldn't even consider trying it. Even beyond the obvious health risks and having to wash your hair in acetone to get out the overspray - atomized cyanoacrylate swirling through the air - what a god awful mess that would create. |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
I wouldn't mess with the stuff for anything. I keep a bottle of CA glue but only use it when necessary and rarely on guitars. I worked as a auto painter for over 20 years and I always wore a respirator when spraying lacquer and 3M dust masks when dry sanding because I really care about breathing... I flat out refused to spray 2K urethanes and that is the main reason I quit painting cars and found another profession. When you have to wear a hazmat suite with piped in air to spray paint that tells you something about how dangerous it is. CA is worse than 2K urethanes so I personally don't use it. It is great stuff but quite dangerous for your health let alone trying to atomize it to spray it on a guitar... I say don't even try it if you like breathing. Bob |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
That sounds like a recipe for a one way trip to the ER. |
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| Author: | Logan [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
Sounds like I'll just stick with shellac for now. Shellac mixed with everclear or medical grade ethanol is probably the most benign finish available. I pore filled with cyanoacrylate once and my lungs were messed up for days. I don't use it now without a respirator on. I was thinking spraying with a respirator and chemical goggles might be ok. I was also thinking the fast drying time would be great. After reading the comments above I'll just stay away from it. I was also going to try minwax wipe on poly, I've read good results. I would have to leave it in the garage to dry which would only work in the summer. With shellac I can do all the finish work in my spare room. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
Not even remotely a good idea. |
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| Author: | cbrviking [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
You'll glue your lungs shut! |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
You guys are using the wrong CA. I've done four guitars with non-fuming (or foam safe) CA. I use a respirator as a precaution but I probably only need it for the accelerator. I used to use Bob Smith Industries medium viscosity Super Gold but it's very expensive, about $25 for a 2 ounce bottle. I could do a guitar with 3 bottles but that's more than I want to spend. Now I use Starbond thin odorless. It's about $80 for a 16 ounce bottle. I pad on some BSI accelerator, since I have it. I let it flash off and then spread thin layers with black Duraskin powderless nitrile gloves. I sand lightly between coats with 320 gold paper. After 5 coats I level pretty aggressively. Then I do one final coat and sand 400, 600, 1500 and buff. It doesn't gas off for days like other finishes. It does blush some like the amine blush you get from epoxy but not as badly. I wouldn't use a paper towel to spread it because it would probably use up too much product. Could you spray it? Maybe, but you'd waste a lot doing so. The folks at Starbond told me that they sell most of it to people who do 3D printing. I only do one coat a day but I could do two pretty easily. It will shrink back some so it's better not to rush it. Sorry I don't have more pictures right now. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
What is the purpose of accelerator if you do only one coat a day? |
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| Author: | ChuckB [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
Ken, Are you able to pore fill and level with the 5 initial coats on a porous wood like mahogany? Chuck |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
From hearing Dana's description of the finish during his presentation at the last ASIA symposium Where he described as " a cyanoacrylate type finish with a urethane type molecular bond" I and some others came to the conclusion that was a mystical spin put on modern conversion varnish. |
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| Author: | Glen H [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
If it were sprayed, how would you keep the gun from clogging up? |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
meddlingfool wrote: What is the purpose of accelerator if you do only one coat a day? Unlike the BSI CA, the Starbond took a long time to cure without the accelerator. The accelerator improves the spreading characteristics and I can apply a thicker coat. There is a learning curve with this though and things are pretty lumpy after five coats. |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
ChuckB wrote: Ken, Are you able to pore fill and level with the 5 initial coats on a porous wood like mahogany? Chuck That's a mahogany neck in the picture. The pores are filled after 2-3 coats. That's what I used to do for pore filling when I was spraying catalyzed urethane as a topcoat. |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
Ken have you had any sand-throughs with CA and if so does it leave a witness line? Im curious how CA works as far as a build finish..if it melts into the finish below like lacquer or layers on top like varnish. Starbond also makes aerosol accelerator spray. Have you tried that? I saw a demonstration at ASL recently - wipe on Starbond medium with a paper towel - take outside and spray accelerator, immediately sand with 320, do it again, and the pores are filed. Cant wait to try this on the next guitar. |
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| Author: | AddamStark [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
The tip on the spray gun would be glued closed after a few passes. I once took an old spray gun before throwing it away and tried this and that was what happened. Some info on sanding cyanoacrylate glues. The flumes are not the thing you want to worry about so much. It just burns your eyes and such and is not so great for you. It's the dust from dry sanding the glue that is the problem! OSHA came to SCGC when I ran the finish dept. and they told us that the dust from the cyanoacrylate was one of the most harmful things to the lungs in the whole shop. The dusts finest particles are so small that they go deep into your lungs to the point of not being able to come out. Just be safe as always! |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
Goodin wrote: Ken have you had any sand-throughs with CA and if so does it leave a witness line? Im curious how CA works as far as a build finish..if it melts into the finish below like lacquer or layers on top like varnish. Starbond also makes aerosol accelerator spray. Have you tried that? I saw a demonstration at ASL recently - wipe on Starbond medium with a paper towel - take outside and spray accelerator, immediately sand with 320, do it again, and the pores are filed. Cant wait to try this on the next guitar. No witness lines. I do sand through occasionally and it's not much of a problem. Just takes more time to finish. The layers do melt into each other. As Adam says you need a dust mask for the dry sanding. I haven't used the Starbond aerosol accelerator but I bet it's good. I just have a lot of the other accelerator so I'm going to wait until it runs out until I try something else. I like the accelerator below the CA so I'm sure the CA cures well, especially in the pores. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
AddamStark wrote: The dusts finest particles are so small that they go deep into your lungs to the point of not being able to come out. Just be safe as always! Trying to think of a new name for Black Lung. "Glue Lung." |
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| Author: | Cocephus [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
James Orr wrote: AddamStark wrote: The dusts finest particles are so small that they go deep into your lungs to the point of not being able to come out. Just be safe as always! Trying to think of a new name for Black Lung. "Glue Lung." I have it. Yeah, it sucks. |
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| Author: | Parser [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
This just seems like a horrible idea. CA kicks off in the presence of moisture...I can just imagine someone inhaling a lung full of atomized CA. *POOF* no more lungs. Even if there may be one or two ways to do this responsibly, IMO this thread should be deleted before it encourages someone with less than the required materials and equipment to do it the wrong way. Trevor |
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| Author: | James W B [ Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spraying Cyanoacrylate |
Have you noticed any changes to the sound of the guitar |
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