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| Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44693 |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
I’ve been told that most of the power tool manufacturers in the consumer market have their products made in a handful of factories. I can see this to be true as I look at websites for different suppliers and see nearly identical products. The only difference being the colour of the paint and minor modifications to appearance. So my question is, if two manufacturers offer an identical machine at a similar price can I assume the products are similar quality? Here are a couple examples Powermatic 20” planer with Byrd Shelix head http://www.powermatic.com/Products.aspx?Part=1791315&cat=P260 General International 20” planer with Byrd Shelix Head (Byrd upgrade offer by local supplier) http://www.general.ca/products/1_general/30_planer/30-300.html Both these machines have identical specs and nearly identical price with the Powermatic having a street price in Canada of $200 more than the General. Here is another example Laguna 12” jointer http://www.lagunatools.com/jointers/Industrial-25-Planer_2# General 12” jointer (with Byrd upgrade) http://www.general.ca/products/1_general/80_jointer/80-325.html If the product and quality is the same than in both these cases I’m going to choose the General for the simple reason that the warranty work in my part of the province is serviced by my local supplier who is less than 2 hrs away, and I know from experience they offer good service. With Laguna I would have to deal with the parent company which I’ve heard can be a hassle and is not local. It seems that where things start to get different is when you move up to industrial grade equipment, like Holytek for example. http://holytekcanada.com/products/9/jointers.html For now I’m looking at professional/light industrial grade machines. Any thought on brand A vs B when they seem to be offering the same product? |
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| Author: | Haans [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
You takes yer pick and they takes yer money. Then you live with what you get... Powermatic was made by Rikon when I bought my tools. They are so out of date that I have resurrected the bandsaw several times by having a friend make new (improved) parts. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
I think you're spot on when talking about these mid line import machines - meaning the "manufacturer" purchases from Asian factories and brands them. Go with who you trust for service and support. BTW the Byrd head is a fantastic upgrade. Since you are in Canada you may be able to find some used Canadian built General machines which are very nice. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
The castings are often the same, but the machining can be different along with the paint job. I have a Yorkcraft 6" jointer which apparently is the same as a Delta. Several hundred dollars less and works fine. I can't tell you if it's machined less accurately, as I have nothing to compare to. |
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| Author: | Bri [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
If you could find used general Canada tools they are very well made, though the general international stuff is not too bad. I have their 15" planer, cabinet saw and 6" long bed jointer. They have served me well with minimal problems. I know that many offshore made tool use the same castings with the difference being in paint color, motors and accessories. Some light industrial brands to look at include SCM and their Minimax line, Felder and their Hammer line. The Casadei stuff appears to be minimax rebranded. I own a Minimax SC4 saw and their 16" J/P combo. These both function beatifully, but were a bit of a challenge to set up initially. If you want to see just about every woodworking piece of machinery made, head to the AWFS in Vegas this July. Vegas is nasty in July. There should be a used machinery dealer or two in S. Ontario somewhere. B |
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| Author: | Greg Maxwell [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
I consider any power tool to be a 'kit' regardless of brand. By that I mean they all are probably going to need to be fine-tuned, adjusted, possible slight modifications, etc. That said, I go for places that offer great service and no-hassle returns or replacements. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
While many different brands may come off of the same production line, they aren't always exactly the same. I was grilling a Delta rep about why I should buy their planer instead of an exact off brand that was cheaper. He told me that they came off the same line, but Delta had their own quality control workers at the factory to make sure that Delta's machines were to spec. Also, a 3 year warranty vs. a 1 year. The same machines might have equal warrantiy periods, but they may differ in what and when they cover different parts. Will they repair on site, or do you have to haul it to their authorized repair centre, where ever that may be. I have an older, used General table saw, and if I need any part, I can get them from Quebec. Might not be as easy to get parts for off shore machines. Alex |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
I think you've got the right approach. If the machines are more or less identical, pick the brand with better serviceability. However, I think it's probably important to try to strike up a good relationship with a salesperson with actual specific knowledge of the machines you're interested. I couldn't give a specific example, but I'm sure in many cases, there's more differences under the hood than meet the eye. Find someone you can actually get some traction with that will be in your corner. That, and read a ton of reviews. I know it certainly helped me when deciding on what bandsaw was going to be right for me... |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
Either of those planers would be excellent. They both have a helix head. I would be inclined to go with General for serviceability, but that's here on the Wet Coast. Price would dictate a lot. A friend of mine has that General. Loves it. If I was going to buy a new jointer it would be helix also. I think you can get that General with helix. I own a Laguna bandsaw and table saw. They are a noticeable step down from General as far as precession goes but work well and will last my lifetime. Then again, so will my crappy little Busy Bee 6" jointer. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
That's like asking a Ford salesman if Chevys are any good. None of them know jack. Salesmen (oh, excuse me...sales associates) are paid to push. If they have 2 Powermatics and one General, guess which one they will tell you is best... If you want to find out, take a good machinist with you. He'll tell you which ones have pot metal parts. I'd say Klooker has the right idea...find an old General made in Canada. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
Not all salespeople are created equal. Hence finding someone who will give you the straight goods... |
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| Author: | Toonces [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
Old machines are often much better tools. The only issue is that you need to be able to do some light repairs and some tools like shapers can be much more complicated to reassemble. I picked up a decades old VMax oscillating spindle sander a few years ago and rebuilt it -- there is just no comparison in quality between that machine and something like the Delta, Jet, and other import brands. Jointers are relatively simple machines -- I would try and find a used industrial quality machine and convert the head to a Byrd Shelix which are very nice for figured woods. With a little bit of work you will end up with something that will be significantly better quality than the cheap import stuff -- which works well but is a major step-down in quality from old American tools (I'd count General as a good brand as well). Good jointer brands are old Yates, Olivers, Northfields, Generals, and old Powermatics. eBay and industrial auction sites are good places to look. |
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| Author: | dnf777 [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
Its just like kitchen appliances....there's about three asian factories that make ALL models under different wardrobes. With appliances and tools, for me, its what has local support, preferably through a private distributor or outlet. Someone whose kids go to the same school as mine, and I know them personally. That's how to get good advice and good service. I'm no longer loyal to name brands, with VERY few exceptions. Seems that in this global, interconnected economy, everyone makes a "passable" quality product, but not much more. The overwhelming drive for profitability (ie survivability) and meeting supply quotas has taken over quality and detail. Service is key for me. |
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| Author: | Bri [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
An alternative to the byrd helix head is a tersa head. It is a double sided disposable knife. To change the 3 knives in my J/P is about 3 minutes. No messing with jigs, just slide them in. The finished surface is like glass even on figured stuff. Replacement knives are not a whole lot more than sending out for sharpening. B |
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| Author: | Tim L [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
I have found the some of the best deals on quality machines can be found at school auctions. Lots of the older Powermatics that have been well maintained and were made when Powermatic was making an excellent name for itself. And fairly inexpensive to boot. In any older machine look for aged cast iron bases. Good Luck |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
Bri wrote: An alternative to the byrd helix head is a tersa head. It is a double sided disposable knife. To change the 3 knives in my J/P is about 3 minutes. No messing with jigs, just slide them in. The finished surface is like glass even on figured stuff. Replacement knives are not a whole lot more than sending out for sharpening. B Thanks for the heads up about the Tersa, Bri. Blade changes on my planer are a PITA, and it's either change the cutter head, or spend a pile for a factory planer with a shelix. Alex |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
Hi all, thanks for the great replies. Lots of good points and I think I agree with all of them. I'm open to used tool and will keep my eye out as I look around. |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
Haans wrote: You takes yer pick and they takes yer money. Then you live with what you get... Powermatic was made by Rikon when I bought my tools. They are so out of date that I have resurrected the bandsaw several times by having a friend make new (improved) parts. Power Matic is now Owned by Jet / Wilton and some parts are still available Quote: the warranty work in my part of the province is serviced by my local supplier who is less than 2 hrs away, and I know from experience they offer good service. This is a consideration that alot forget to think about . AS important as the machine itself |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Power tool manufacturers, A vs B and how to choose |
In Canada also look for old used Poitras jointers. Kevin Looke |
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