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Gluing Purfling On Binding
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Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Gluing Purfling On Binding
In my quest to find the easiest way to do something I really don't enjoy I have tried many methods of doing this. Jigs, (the StewMac one works well with Ivoroid and acetone not so well with CA ), spring clamps (too heavy), and binder clips ( work well but hard for me to put on).

I recently tried just plain clothespins, both metal and plastic for a tightbond glue up of bwb fiber to Rosewood. They worked great and were easy to put on and things went quite quickly.

I'd be interested to see other's solutions, mainly for CA or Tightbond.

Terry

I started with binder clips as a trial and switched to clothespins. Much easier for me. I had a bunch from when I used them for lining.

Image

The plastic clothespins would have the advantage of not sticking to the glue.

Image
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
I'd be interested in seeing how others tackle this as well. Do share!
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
We lay ours down flat and use binder clips against a non stick surface. If you upped a step in clip size you'd find it was easier, both from spring pressure and and the wider mouth bring less inclined to jump off. I'll put up a pic later...
Author:  DannyV [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
Sorry, too lazy to take a picture. I have a piece of plywood, about 5" x 34". Screw a fence to the fell length of one side. Use and unattached stick of wood for the fence on the other side. Find some 1 1/2" dowel and cut 6 or so 1" pieces. Drill a hole in each just offset of centre. Screw these in the appropriate spot so the unattached fence will be camed by the dowels, when you turn them, and clamp your binding, purfling lay up. I do 2 bindings at a time with binding to binding, not purfling to purfling. There's less chance of gluing them together. This is important. Before you assemble any parts of this jig that may get glue on them, cover them in packing tape so the glue won't stick. I always keep some small wedges handy in case the dowel cams won't pressure well. Just tap a wedge in. I use Titebond 3 and in a warm environment I leave them for about 1/2 hour. Take them out and do the other 2. Get it? Easy to make and not fussy to use.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
That sounds like a good setup. Now I have something new to build before my next round of binding.
Author:  Josh H [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
meddlingfool wrote:
We lay ours down flat and use binder clips against a non stick surface. If you upped a step in clip size you'd find it was easier, both from spring pressure and and the wider mouth bring less inclined to jump off. I'll put up a pic later...


I do the same.
Author:  Clinchriver [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
Bought the fancy gizmo's from LMI for clamping kerfed lining's they work great for this. :mrgreen: I have been using Titebond III supposed to take more heat without letting go so far its working.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
I do it about the same as you terry. My clamps are some I picked up at my local home depot about 15 years ago. They were on closeout so I bought all the had, about 50 of them or so, for practically nothing. The springs are getting weak so I am looking for replacements. Maybe Harbor Freight.

Oh, and I use CA. just a dab every clamp or so.
Author:  giltzow [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
I've used most of the above methods. Now I do it a little differently. Not simpler and not faster so I don't recommend it, but for me, I get better results. After I cut the binding channels, I super glue the purfling to the channel and after all purfling is in, I use fish glue and shock cord to put the bindings on. Again not a time saving procedure and frustrating at times but the results, for me, are worth the time and frustration.
Author:  Tom West [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
Binder clips here............!! An easy way to get into trouble is to leave your binding the regular depth, glue on the purfling ,bend the purflied binding and then try to install them on the back without any gaps. Gaps tend to happen the waist and the sharp bend at the upper bout . The binding on the top less so. I cut down the depth of the binding before bending to ensure that they will install tight without gaps.
Tom
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
These 1" ers are perfect...Image
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
Tom West wrote:
Binder clips here............!! An easy way to get into trouble is to leave your binding the regular depth, glue on the purfling ,bend the purflied binding and then try to install them on the back without any gaps. Gaps tend to happen the waist and the sharp bend at the upper bout . The binding on the top less so. I cut down the depth of the binding before bending to ensure that they will install tight without gaps.
Tom


Me too. I usually shoot for 1/4" overall.

I have glued the purfling first as well using a strip of teflon to substitute for the binding. It is a ton of extra work but it's easier for me to get the miters perfect as well as the junctions of the binding.
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Gluing Purfling On Binding
I used the clothespin method for years, with good results, but always felt it was cumbersome and time-consuming. So I finally took an hour to make a jig that's both simple and very effective. Rather than describe it, I'll attach a pic that I think illustrates the idea pretty well. Image
Image
The base is made of some kind of dimensionally-stable extruded plastic molding bought at Home Depot. I replaced the wood fence with a similarly-sized piece of aluminum, and all surfaces that might come in contact with glue are lined with adhesive-backed UHMW film. Works like a charm. Using CA, I can glue up all my bindings in minutes versus hours.


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  Robbie_McD [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
This is what I use, a channel created in a stable piece of maple. I take some scotch tape and line the insides before laying in the perfling, gluing the binding, and wrapping with rubber bands.
One issue I have been having is the glue type - when I bend the bindings they tend to glue together and I have to separate with a razor - the LMI bindings were foolproof - not sure what glue they were using...
I have tried fish and titebond....fish seemed to be better, but not perfect....

Image
Author:  Gasawdust [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
Ken Jones I like your gluing jig and will most likely do something similar. Where did you source your UHMW film?
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
Gasawdust wrote:
Ken Jones I like your gluing jig and will most likely do something similar. Where did you source your UHMW film?


Lee Valley carries UHMW tape.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
My jig looks like Robbies, but the slot is deeper, and about .115 wide .. my bindings are .100 or so in the rough and I mainly use .100 purfs from Gurians, so they match up well ... I line the slot with parchment paper, then put the purf in the bottom dry .. then run a bead of glue down the binding bottom using TB1, and a notch cut into the glue bottle tip so it stays on the binding as you run the bottle down the edge .. then push that into the slot on top of the purf, and use about 10-12 large spring clamps to hold the binding down.. less clamps needed as the slotted piece of maple holds the purf flat against the binding piece, and the slot width guarantees the purf will be nicely centred on the binding, which afterwards will get sanded to about .085
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
I think I did get the UHMW tape from Lee Valley. In case it's not clear from the picture, there is some adjustability in the fence -- I just drilled the holes a bit bigger than the bolts, which are secured to the base with threaded inserts. It gives me enough adjustment for any binding/purfling layup I might need. The beauty of this setup is that I can get the pieces in there dry, clamp it all down with light pressure, whack it along its length with a mallet and a thin wood block so it's all perfectly flat and flush, douse the joint with water-thin CA, do something else for a few minutes, then pull it out ready for use. I also like that the fence applies even pressure along its entire length.


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  Jfurry [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
giltzow wrote:
I've used most of the above methods. Now I do it a little differently. Not simpler and not faster so I don't recommend it, but for me, I get better results. After I cut the binding channels, I super glue the purfling to the channel and after all purfling is in, I use fish glue and shock cord to put the bindings on. Again not a time saving procedure and frustrating at times but the results, for me, are worth the time and frustration.

This is the way we go also.We use an iron to flatten the purfling at the start .
Author:  Robbie_McD [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
Hi Ken, I like your jig - any issues with the CA glue holding during bending?
When I bend my bindings i do a bunch at once and tape them together so any bent ones are straightened out during the bending process.
Because the bindings are touching any glue bleed during bending occasionally fuses the bindings together.
I don't think CA would have this problem.
i am thinking CA glue and your style of jig my be the answer I am looking for to resolve.
Author:  Ruby50 [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
For jigs like this, you can use a tap to cut threads in the wood, drop in some CA glue, then tap again when it is dry, and you won't need a nut. In hardwood, the threads are strong enough that you can't strip them with a screwdriver.

Couple of very good solutions here

Ed
Author:  Robbie_McD [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
Tom West wrote:
I cut down the depth of the binding before bending to ensure that they will install tight without gaps.
Tom


That was the single biggest improvement to the quality of my binding installs - I just did two guitars with zero gaps....
Although I do spend way more time now on the hot pipe getting the bindings to fit perfectly before install - that helps too...
Author:  J De Rocher [ Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
giltzow wrote:
I've used most of the above methods. Now I do it a little differently. Not simpler and not faster so I don't recommend it, but for me, I get better results. After I cut the binding channels, I super glue the purfling to the channel and after all purfling is in, I use fish glue and shock cord to put the bindings on. Again not a time saving procedure and frustrating at times but the results, for me, are worth the time and frustration.


I'm getting ready to install side purfling and I would like to take this approach because I will have miters at both ends. Could you describe how you do it? For example: Do you spot tack the purfling to the channel with the CA glue as you install it? if so, what is the spacing like? Do you use accelerator? Which viscosity CA glue do you use? Any difficulty keeping the purfling lying flat on the bottom of the channel? Any tricks or tips? Thanks.
Author:  Glenn_Aycock [ Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
J De Rocher wrote:
I'm getting ready to install side purfling and I would like to take this approach because I will have miters at both ends. Could you describe how you do it? For example: Do you spot tack the purfling to the channel with the CA glue as you install it? if so, what is the spacing like? Do you use accelerator? Which viscosity CA glue do you use? Any difficulty keeping the purfling lying flat on the bottom of the channel? Any tricks or tips? Thanks.


I didn't like this method for side perfling at all. Even with fairly flexible fiber, it was extremely difficult to bend (wrong axis), glue and keep in place and level while the CA cured, even with accelerator. I think that was slow CA from the hobby store. I don't recommend it.

Glenn
Author:  giltzow [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling On Binding
J De Rocher wrote:
giltzow wrote:
I've used most of the above methods. Now I do it a little differently. Not simpler and not faster so I don't recommend it, but for me, I get better results. After I cut the binding channels, I super glue the purfling to the channel and after all purfling is in, I use fish glue and shock cord to put the bindings on. Again not a time saving procedure and frustrating at times but the results, for me, are worth the time and frustration.


I'm getting ready to install side purfling and I would like to take this approach because I will have miters at both ends. Could you describe how you do it? For example: Do you spot tack the purfling to the channel with the CA glue as you install it? if so, what is the spacing like? Do you use accelerator? Which viscosity CA glue do you use? Any difficulty keeping the purfling lying flat on the bottom of the channel? Any tricks or tips? Thanks.


I bend the purfling with the bindings:

Image


Cut the binding channel and using thin super glue and accelerator hold the purf tight to the channel and glue about an inch at a time (I did say this was time consuming) In the picture below I have mitered both ends of the tail graft purfling and glued them in. For this I wedge the pieces in with the tail graft and glue the outside edges of the purfling and remove the graft. Then glue a mitered purfling to the tail graph purfling and slowly work around to the heel

Image

The reason I'm not recommending this is that it is time consuming; but I decided along time ago not to worry about the time - worry about getting the best job you can. I know that doesn't fit with making money but not very many of us make alot of money anyway.
Below I am using shock cord to hold the binding - I use fish glue (gives me time to make the end cuts) and I put 1 binding on at a time. Let it cure for 12 to 24 hours and do another.

Image

Image

Image

Results:

Image

I rarely have any gaps to fill; but I paid for that in construction time. I fish glue about 1/4 of the binding at a time; taping it down with LMI binding tape and cover everything with masking take to keep the glue from getting on the shock cord.

If you have any further questions I would be happy to answer - Mike
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