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| Little advice please http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44923 |
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| Author: | Cablepuller [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Little advice please |
 Hi Made a mistake filling gaps/digs in neck The kit neck was quite badly knocked about (must of been used as a cricket bat in the factory) Someone told me to use the shavings/dust from the neck and put in gaps then a drop of superglue. This has left dark colouration that doesnt seem to sand lighter. . What can i do and what should i of done Many thanks in advance |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
You will have to get rid of the superglue, which is why HHG is virtually always a better idea for virtually everything. It just makes it so easy to remove and have another go, perhaps with a different filler. |
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| Author: | mkellyvrod [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Before you remove altogether, I would sand the area and get it as flush as possible then coat the fill and surronding area with a little shellac. Most woods darken on finishing, and it is possible that your repair will blend in better with the surronding wood once you get a coat of finish on it. If that does work, you can start over as Michael suggested. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Can't tell how deep this divot is. I suspect that any filler will show so you may want to consider removing the affected area and carefully piecing in new wood matching grain and color. Since this is a kit neck you may not have access to matching wood though. Plan B might be if the divot is pretty shallow using a paddle tip on a Weller Soldering gun and a wet rag to see if you can steam the affected area to swell enough that no filling may be needed. But again can't see how deep this one is from the pics. And then there is the old trusty guitar building forum plan C - sunburst... |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
I'm not sure what stage the neck is at from the picture. But, I have had some success "scarfing" in a quite thick sliver of scrap from the same wood if you have any. Lots of help from others in this tread. http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43046&p=568660&hilit=+rasp#p568660 |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Kit necks tend to be a little wide. If it isn't too deep, sand/file it out in after the fretboard is glued on as part of the transition at the edge. Super glue and sawdust only works on ebony. IMO, sawdust and any kind of glue (HHG included) make a very poor filler. Clear shellac stick is by far the best and least visible filler if one must be used, but always try to remove the dent by steaming first. For large dings, yeah, scarfing in a piece of matching wood is best, but easier said than done. Acetone and a Q-tip will remove dried superglue if you must, but be careful, you don't want to stain the edge more deeply by dissolving glue deeper into the wood. Try this on scrap first. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
No, you will never get an invisible 'fill' whether using a paste type filler or even clear Shellac. Even if you get the colour correct the odd reflection will give it away. Assuming that it can't be steamed out and/or the dent is too deep the best is a graft, if you have an off cut from the same piece of wood. Otherwise it's a matter of scrounging around until you find a piece with similar grain, colour and reflection. It can prove to be quite time consuming, which is why I keep all off cuts until the instrument is around 5 years old. You never know when that guitar might return with a huge dent in the soundboard. Similar idea but this is an example of using an off cut to graft in a piece. viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=33079 |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Then there's the "When in doubt feature it" approach. You could do a an inlay... M |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Horses are already out of the barn -- but this is the perfect example of why care must to taken when deciding about what methods, procedures and tools etc. during the various construction and repair processes. I suspect the "saw dust and glue" repair likely has produced the most unacceptable and disappointing repairs of any of the suggestion in print and on the internet. Now I do not repair guitars for $$ but at times dents and chips need to be made "invisible" during the building process in our shop. Dents can usually can be puffed up by steaming, I use a small hobby iron (made to shrink plastic film). If I apply any putty to fill holes or gaps its done after sealer is applied -- case in point would be the problem described here. While I believe CA is a poor choice the absorption mess would not have occurred. But still the patch would be way too dark. BTW glue and saw dust will "never work on light colored wood. On the other hand CA and dust result in almost undetectable patches in Ebony and Rosewood. Shellac sticks are my method of choice to match color, again this is after finish is applied. Also there have been times when I use the glue and dust procedure, I use Elmer's and a lot of matching dust with a bit of contracting dust in the blend -- again after sealer is applied. The worst thing one can do is to charge ahead with an appearance repair process (and there are many) without first testing to see if it is going to work as planned. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Stain the rest of the neck darker and the dark repair area will blend in better, experiment with stain colors on some scrap to get as close of a match as you can get. Fred |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Trying to "stain" that neck to get an even color and hide the area in question will be nearly impossible. Problem is that the area has been sealed with the CA and will not absorb stain water base or solvent. I would suggest using Behlen's "Master Toner" You stain the entire neck one color, then use the toner which is an aerosol tinted lacquer. Its a great product that allows feather blending of light or dark spots. What's really cool is you know what the coloration looks like right away. After you are satisfied you apply top coats -- you will have to take care to avoid sand through which would remove color and change the shade value. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Of course the area will not accept stain but the rest of the neck will, if a careful selection of stain color the area will blend quite nicely. Once you are happy proceed with whatever finish method you choose. Fred |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
There's no way I would leave that CA abomination under finish even if disguised with toner and/or stain. It will rear it's ugly head eventually. If it comes to that, much better to graft in a mahogany patch first. It doesn't look that deep to me, but can't say for sure from the photo. I still think it may well sand out after the fretboard is glued on. |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Michael.N. wrote: No, you will never get an invisible 'fill' whether using a paste type filler or even clear Shellac. Even if you get the colour correct the odd reflection will give it away. While that may be true, clear stick shellac if properly applied is at least 10x better. (seal first with liquid shellac) If it must be patched with wood, it is important to note the grain direction/orientation also, as the difference in chatoyance will give it away if not well matched. Opaque paste grain filler over unsealed wood will help in this case. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Colored stick shellac is usually a better match than clear. |
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| Author: | Ken Lewis [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
Glue and fill blemishs will be impossible to completely hide IMHO but I agree with Fred. Just do a test on a similar type of wood and check for yourself. You'll probably need to experiment to get the shade close. Good luck. Ken |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
the more I work on guitars the less I use CA. CA as you just found out can really soak into the wood making staining impossible. I agree that you can stain the neck dark but as Ken points out , the patch will show . I would also use a dark toner in the finish to help blend it all together. You will always know it is there but you can at least try and hide it and not make it obvious . |
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| Author: | Glenn_Aycock [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Little advice please |
You might also try a bit or wood bleach (oxalic acid) to lighten the stain. Caveat emptor. |
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