I think I saw RC carrying torrefied Addie. I'm pretty sure home torrefication kits will be commonplace in the near future and we will all be cookin' up.
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Torrefied everywhere... |
Seems like everywhere I look I see torrefied tops... Is it getting to be a standard feature that small time luthiers can't offer? Is it a marketing ploy or is it really the greatest thing since 18:1 tuners? |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
My guess is you will see luthier supply houses start to carry Torrefied tops within the year. I hope to have Torrefied tops and possibly other guitar woods (back & sides, other) by the end of 2015. I've talked to one guy who is processing a lot of the Torrefied woods being used by guitar makers, and it sounds like there are some really advantages to the stability of the wood after it goes through the process. Those who have built with the tops say they have a great sound. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
I think I saw RC carrying torrefied Addie. I'm pretty sure home torrefication kits will be commonplace in the near future and we will all be cookin' up.
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
I can see in the distant future, where a whizened luthier struggles to supply a niche market with non-torrefied topped guitars. Willing to tell any prospective customer that a guy named Martin used to build them that way, he looks at his stash of adi, lutz, and sitka, and turns off the lights, and hopes tomorrow is a better day. ![[uncle]](./images/smilies/surrenderflagqv6.gif "Uncle") I guess I'll probably get a couple of those tops, anyways.  Alex |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Whatcha mean?  
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Yeah it's everywhere now and even Netflix has a show, a hit show about it called "Breaking Tone...." It's the story of a high school science teacher who never got the sound that he wanted out of his 77 Guild. One day he found out that he had only two more ASIA shows time to live so he ripped the top off the Guild, enlisted the assistance of a high school drop out who majored in parking lot... and they went in to business together selling torrified tops to f*ctories and individual builders..... while fighting off the local gangs who sold lesser quality semi-torrified tops.... Soon another show started called "House of Torrified Tops" where one guy by hook or by crook including murdering wayward Ov*tions when no one is looking, he threw them in front of a train... became POTUS and season three starts later this week. Personally I've always been a fan of "Weeds and Torrified Tops" where a pretty woman lost her husband and decides to go into the business of selling torrified tops. Along the way she flirts with cartels who are dangerous and will kill the competition, DEA agents, and a host of family problems too. Yep Torrification is everywhere now and there is no escaping it.... time to get with the program I tell ya..... Time to go toast my bagel.... |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
| Red neck torrification.....
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| Author: | kencierp [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
So the suppliers that claim air dried material is better than kiln dried material -- stronger/ more stable etc. Have that wrong? Torrification is a kiln on steroids. I have heard so many great sounding "brand new" guitars made with air and kiln dried wood --- I personally dismiss this as another fad sales gimmick. But on the other hand -- Yamaha has been using the process for years!!!! |
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| Author: | ZekeM [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
I personally am a fan of torrified wheat. With the cellular structure broke down it can be hydrated more easily allowing the malt enzymes to more effectively attack the starches and proteins. Wait this isn't about beer at all is it!?!?!? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
ZekeM wrote: I personally am a fan of torrified wheat. With the cellular structure broke down it can be hydrated more easily allowing the malt enzymes to more effectively attack the starches and proteins. Wait this isn't about beer at all is it!?!?!? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It might as well be, might make more sense.... I always liked a good beer on a hot day but preferred scotch. Besides you can never own beer in so much as I seem to only be able to lease it for about 20 minutes....
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| Author: | JSDenvir [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
If it's okay by Dana Bourgeois, it's okay by me. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
kencierp wrote: So the suppliers that claim air dried material is better than kiln dried material -- stronger/ more stable etc. Have that wrong? Torrification is a kiln on steroids. I have heard so many great sounding "brand new" guitars made with air and kiln dried wood --- I personally dismiss this as another fad sales gimmick. But on the other hand -- Yamaha has been using the process for years!!!! But what Torrefication does to the wood is totally different from kiln dried wood. The guy who runs one of the companies that does this explained that after wood is put through the process it will no longer absorb or release moisture. It becomes stable. Stable wood for acoustic instrument building is really appealing! I'm sure some people will argue with that claim, but I'm just telling you what I've been told and what they have observed from testing the moisture content of the wood after it has been treated. I'm hoping to try building a guitar from entirely torrefied wood to test this claim. See how it survives a winter with no humidification... |
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| Author: | James W B [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Hesh that was very intertaining!!! |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Josh H wrote: kencierp wrote: So the suppliers that claim air dried material is better than kiln dried material -- stronger/ more stable etc. Have that wrong? Torrification is a kiln on steroids. I have heard so many great sounding "brand new" guitars made with air and kiln dried wood --- I personally dismiss this as another fad sales gimmick. But on the other hand -- Yamaha has been using the process for years!!!! But what Torrefication does to the wood is totally different from kiln dried wood. The guy who runs one of the companies that does this explained that after wood is put through the process it will no longer absorb or release moisture. It becomes stable. Stable wood for acoustic instrument building is really appealing! I'm sure some people will argue with that claim, but I'm just telling you what I've been told and what they have observed from testing the moisture content of the wood after it has been treated. I'm hoping to try building a guitar from entirely torrefied wood to test this claim. See how it survives a winter with no humidification... Josh, I think the real test would be to send the guitar to a humid location, not a dry one. Another simple test is to just put the tops in the bathroom when you have a nice hot shower and see if they cup at all. If they do then they are picking up moisture. If they don't well then I guess his claims are correct. As has been said there are a few pretty amazing guitars around that have been built without doing anything to the wood other than letting it sit around for a while. I have a bias that part of the sound of good guitars comes from the process of the wood stabilizing while under tension of the guitar as a coupled unit and fear that heat treating of any kind may shorten the effective acoustic life of the guitar. I have nothing to confirm this so won't argue the point but that is my bias. Shane |
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| Author: | Gasawdust [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
If it won't absorb moisture then normal gluing processes are questionable. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Correct an autoclave is not a kiln -- Torrification is not new by any stretch, it's not expensive if you have the equipment - companies process a zillion board feet of decking a year. Martin knows its not a big deal and in my view is why they are making their "period dating claims" http://www.torrefactionplus.ca/torrefied-wood.php |
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| Author: | Haans [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Spruce and BRW grained HPL is even better...I hope to build a guitar with it and see if it survives being used as a boat paddle for a year. I do think that toroidified transformers work well though... |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Honestly I don't care for 18:1 tuners. |
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| Author: | George L [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
sdsollod wrote: Is it a marketing ploy...? No, no, not at all. It's a wall oven time machine. |
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| Author: | Glen H [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Good question about the glue! It reminds me of the "guitars should be built so light that they are just on the cusp of disaster" BUT " if you build too light they sound tinny, empty". Which is it? They no longer absorb/release moisture or they glue up great? Oh well, time may tell. |
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| Author: | Glen H [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Good question about the glue! It reminds me of the "guitars should be built so light that they are just on the cusp of disaster" BUT " if you build too light they sound tinny, empty". Which is it? They no longer absorb/release moisture or they glue up great? Oh well, time may tell. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
All I can say is that it seemed to glue up fine. But the wood itself is very, very, very different than non torrefied wood. I won't make a better/worse claim, but even the most hard core skeptics would immediately change their mind about torrefaction doing anything or not to the wood as soon as they handled some. The closest comparison would be that it feels very much like bleached driftwood. Carving the braces made them crumble more than yield shavings, and sanding took about 1/5 the the effort. Just wave the sandpaper at it and it smoothed right out. Plus, it smells like brown sugar. Whether it's better or worse, or vintage sounding or what, it is certainly different. So if it becomes yet one more tool in the box for pushing around tonal parameters, so much the better. I'm really curious as to how it stands up over time... |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
Last month, I asked my lumber supplier to get me a quote for a couple hundred BF of roasted maple. He called back a few days later, and told me that the two suppliers who he deals with that handled it, said they stopped selling it because there were too many complaints about the wood fracturing and shattering. I know that it isn't fair to compare spruce and maple side by side, but I'd be interested to know what other changes torrefaction imparts on spruces. I'm sure that you can't change one aspect of a wood's properties without changing others, as well. Alex |
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| Author: | ZekeM [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
The best I understand the torrification is a heat treatment/hardening of the wood. As a machinist, and I'm sure John Hall can vouch for this, the harder something is the more brittle it becomes. So I can completely see where the problem Alex stated would be true. And if this is the case, we'll do we really want brittle guitars? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Torrefied everywhere... |
I once read that the strength decreases and the wood becomes more brittle. That was in reference to Oak flooring which is perhaps? treated to higher temperatures. They also claimed that it was much more stable in relation to humidity changes. I was looking into sourcing an alternative to Ebony fretboards and very dark Oak seemed a good candidate. In the end I didn't bother and opted for bog oak. |
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