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| Preferred wood for solid liners http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45350 |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Preferred wood for solid liners |
I know I can use just about anything for solid liners, but what is your favourite wood and why? As I'm working my way through the Gore/Gilet books solid liners is one of the thingsI'm planning to experiment with on my next few builds. I plan to laminate 3-layers to form the liner as described in the Build book. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I'm doing my first with solid linings. I used quartersawn hard maple because I had some. I bent them on my Fox style bender & installed 3 layers like in the book. The most difficult thing for me is keeping the bottom edges of the layers aligned while installing - meaning mine are pretty sloppy in that regard. I may try to clean them up or I may just leave them alone. I'm more concerned about sound and playability than internal beauty at this point in my building. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | uvh sam [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I use the same laminating jig I use for sides and make a side that is about 5" with no taper. Then I saw it up into 3/4" strips and run them through our thickness sander. I generally use any off cut or orphaned side from resawing |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
My one and only set of linings were made from basswood. Three layers pre-bent on the side form, and glued as a unit in a two piece form. Alex |
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| Author: | DriftwoodGuitars [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I have never done solid linings before, and I'm surprised to hear that they're done as a laminate as opposed to just one single bent piece of wood. What is the purpose of the layered approach? Is it to prevent cracking and add strength? |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I don't know how easy it would be to bend a 1/4" thick one piece lining, Chris. I guess if you steamed ash, it would would take the shape pretty easily, but it would need to stay in a form until it dried. Alex |
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| Author: | Ken Lewis [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Hi Josh I am in the process of building a falcate braced with a live back complete with carbon fiber on the bracing using the Gore, Gilet books. Awesome books yes. I am not following their plans exactly but using and following closely all the techniques for spectrographic analysis, target thicknessing and bracing procedures, etc. For my linings I've used maple (eastern rock I think) because it meets the requirements in the Book, that being it's dense and bends easily. Also there's lots of it where we live. I prelaminated the three layers for each lining inside a half mold just using wood glue. This way I could radius the visible edge thus mitigating the problem that klooker ran into in his reply above. I liked them so much I used them on the back as well, slightly smaller tho. After glue-up the linings had zero springback and fit the sides perfectly. If I was doing for a cutaway I would an use an extra lam against the mold and not glue it. This would be a stand in for the sides so to speak and, I think, make for a perfect fit around the cutaway. Lots of extra work eh, but anything to persue that elusive perfect sounding guitar. Ken |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Josh, I like to use 2 plys of Spanish cedar, it bends well, looks good and smells great. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Thanks for all the feedback and the tips guys! I'm leaning towards maple for the reasons mentioned (plentiful and dense). The purpose of the laminate linings is that they can be bent easily in a bending machine or by hand. I know there are those that bend 1-piece solid linings, but the different methods I've heard of for doing that usually involve soaking the wood and other special treatment. The laminate lining seem like a simple way to get the thickness. Jim, I too like spanish cedar for linings for the smell. However a few years back I start sealing the inside of the guitar with a thin coat of shellac. The smell doesn't come through as much when I do that. Yes Ken, the solid linings and many other aspects of the building found in the Gore/Gilet books are more work compared to what I am doing now. But I trust that it is worth it, and it means a number of other features that will differentiate my guitars from factory instruments and other luthier built instruments. I believe once I settle on my new methods and get all the jigs and templates made it won't be much more time consuming than what I'm doing now. |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I use Paulownia, mostly because it is so lightweight. I tried balsa and just couldn't feel comfortable with how soft it was. The paulownia is only a little heavier but just enough tougher. I make mine 3 ply, .07 each. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I have been using 3 ply of mahogany, mainly because I have it around . I can use my fox style to bend a non-cutaway side, but I hand bend on a pipe if I have a cutaway as the ply need to be bent biased on their position in the stack. When bending the plys for a cutaway I use the side in the mold as the template as it is really hard to glue a mismatched cutaway lining onto the rims. |
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| Author: | WilliamS [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Whatever I have laying around that isn't too heavy. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Linings and side reinforcements matching the back and side material -- I like the look, something I first saw in a high end R. Taylor model. |
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| Author: | Grunt [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Willow bends very easily on a bending iron for 1/4" solid linings. When rounded over with a router but they look great. Although not the high mass thing Trevor is going for in his books. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I used 3 x 2mm strips of Beech, easy to bend, strong and reasonably dense. |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I use 4 or 5 plys of oak, 2 at 3/8"x1/16" and 2 or 3 at 1/4"x1/16". Oak bends easily, and the added weight to the sides doesn't hurt anything. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Any pics of that Roger? |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
See page 2 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=10133&t=37283&start=25 |
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| Author: | ernie [ Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
I use w. ash / w.oak for linings for falcate builds , 1/4 sawn is easy to bend, e.g. chair rails/hoops , easy to come by and less $$ than hard maple . |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Burton LeGeyt wrote: I use Paulownia, mostly because it is so lightweight. I tried balsa and just couldn't feel comfortable with how soft it was. The paulownia is only a little heavier but just enough tougher. I make mine 3 ply, .07 each. Hey Burton, where are you getting your paulownia? |
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| Author: | AlanC [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
kencierp wrote: Linings and side reinforcements matching the back and side material -- I like the look, something I first saw in a high end R. Taylor model. Great idea! I have a stack of flat/rift sawn EIR sides and wasn't sure how I was going to use them. They would be perfect for that. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
ernie wrote: I use w. ash / w.oak for linings for falcate builds , 1/4 sawn is easy to bend, e.g. chair rails/hoops , easy to come by and less $$ than hard maple . Ash is known for it's easy bending qualities, so it does make some sense. I've tried Willow, Lime, Spruce, Cedrela, Mahogany and Cypress all at around 3.5 mm solid. Willow, Lime and Cypress were the easier. Spruce and Cedrela showed some compression marks. I gave up on Mahogany. I'll try the Ash next, although I have bent some Ash for a recurve Bow (as in Bow and Arrow). |
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| Author: | mflazar [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
The type of wood used for the linings may be important in terms of the response you get from the guitar. Denser wood with more mass can produce a better result than light woods. Certainly maple would be a good choice. Personally I like ash or oak which I cut from the edge standard 3/4" boards into 2.5mm strips. I use easy to find flat sawn boards so that the strips come off quarter sawn. For one guitar I bend 10 strips in two groups of 5. My top linings 3 ply and back linings 2 ply. I glue them up in a laminating jig, trim them to height in my thickness sander and round off the edges with a round over bit. Here are some photos. Attachment: S~007.jpg Attachment: S~009.jpg Attachment: S~010.jpg Attachment: S~012.jpg Attachment: S~013.jpg
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Ken Franklin wrote: Hey Burton, where are you getting your paulownia? Hi Ken! I order from World paulownia. Sylvan turned me on to them and Paulownia in general. Here is a link: http://www.worldpaulownia.com/html/paul ... house.html |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred wood for solid liners |
Nice process Michael. I've been thinking similarly, but making a glueing jig with the back radius as well to have the compound curves built into the linings... |
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