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Ipe for B&S?
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Author:  Bri [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Ipe for B&S?
While cleaning out the shop I came across some wood from jobs many years ago.
One plank of Ipe, 14ft. X 2" x 14", all clear and some nice grain. Too bad I can't actually lift it but wondered if any one has tried as a tone wood.
Also came across a similar sized piece of merbau. Any value in lutherie?

Thanks
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
We made a run or two of ipe guitars at Larrivee. It is not the best tonewood, though to be fair, it was not treated any differently than any other wood, so it may have better attributes than was revealed in that situation. It is very heavy, and the ones that came out produced a somewhat murky tone if I remember correctly. But it was treated as rosewood and sent through at 2.8 mm. I would expect 2.2 may have yielded better results.

Ultimately, I would expect you to be able to do a better job with it. You'll know as soon as you cut it into sets. What else could you do with it?
Author:  dzsmith [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Perhaps fretboards?
Author:  Eric Reid [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
It's not the most exciting wood to look at, but functionally, it would be a great wood for fingerboards. I use it for reinforcing the neck on classicals. There's a tradition of reinforcing the Spanish cedar neck of a classical guitar with a hidden piece of stiff, hard wood. Often ebony was used, but ipe is better--more stable, stiffer, and only slightly heavier. I love the Spanish name for this unseen piece of a guitar: "alma" (soul).
Author:  John Lewis [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
If I'm not mistaken, Robert Ruck made an Ipe classical guitar for himself that turned out rather well.
Author:  ernie [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Eric alma means apple in my native hungarian lol. I/ve used ipe to make a baritone uke I thinned it to .0070 with st. grain no problems bending a tight curve. The back was closer to .080.It is an underrated an unglamourous wood ,massaranduba low $ is also hard hvy an dense brazil flooring wood which can be used for loofery but being so dense should be thinned proportionally
Author:  DennisK [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
After you slice up your bandsaw on that board, let me know how much you want for a 00 set :) If it's less than $100, I'd like to give it a try. I agree with Ed, it should definitely be thinner than 2.8mm. Maybe even below 2mm.

I don't really know anything about merbau, though the stats on wood-database look good as a rosewood substitute. Nice low humidity expansion, too. It's quite boring looking though :| At least ipe is an unusual color.

Eric Reid wrote:
It's not the most exciting wood to look at, but functionally, it would be a great wood for fingerboards. I use it for reinforcing the neck on classicals. There's a tradition of reinforcing the Spanish cedar neck of a classical guitar with a hidden piece of stiff, hard wood. Often ebony was used, but ipe is better--more stable, stiffer, and only slightly heavier. I love the Spanish name for this unseen piece of a guitar: "alma" (soul).

Greenheart has even higher Young's modulus according to wood-database.com, though I've never seen it for sale in small quantity. Honduran rosewood is about the same as ipe. Purpleheart is not far behind, plus is lighter weight. One of my in-progress guitars has purpleheart laminated in the braces. Theoretically, the high strength should make it more creep-resistant even when carved lower to get the same final stiffness as taller solid spruce braces. Though they are heavier. But for neck reinforcement where weight isn't as critical, ipe does seem like one of the best.

Ipe's extreme hardness does indeed seem great for fingerboards. I think it could look good with proper binding/purfling treatment.
Author:  ernie [ Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Dennis you might check metro hdwd for some Ipe . I got mine from Paxton , and some of the contractors here use it for decking. Check around locally u may be surprised
Author:  DennisK [ Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
ernie wrote:
Dennis you might check metro hdwd for some Ipe . I got mine from Paxton , and some of the contractors here use it for decking. Check around locally u may be surprised

Hey Ernie, glad to see you survived the tornadoes :D
Yeah, I've seen it at Metro, but only in 3/4" thick... not much use to a guy without a bandsaw :lol: Feels more like stone than wood.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
@dennis: wood database gives even higher MOE for katalox - probably harder to source than ipe but definetly easier than greenheart.

Sorry for the OT guys.
Author:  ernie [ Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Tnx dennis fyi I/m on the other end extreme sw of l summit . it was greenwood se of l. summit 10 mi as the crow flies that got hit. Send me a PM with ur fone number . I bought a 3/4in rip blade for the scmi 18in BS . If I ever get off my butt . I can set it up and you can resaw the IPE in the fall when its cooler and drier . With all the rh around veneers cup vy easily regards ernie. I think the ipe I bought was 1/4 sawn it is vy hard to determine that on IPE ,so buyer beware if u do !!
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Might be a good tone wood but I don't know. I got some from a friend that I sliced up for fret boards. It was very hard to cut and seems to be kind of brittle. Haven't actually done anything else with it.
Author:  JimO [ Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Built a fretless bass with an ipe fingerboard and laminates for the neck. Indestructible even with round wounds. Watch out for the splinters and the dust is hazardous.
Author:  cphanna [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Funny... I inquired a year or so ago whether ipe would be suitable for a fingerboard. I got a whole page of answers saying it would just dull my tools and be unworkable and cause tremendous frustration and on and on and on. But here we've got a number of people saying it ought to be good for fingerboards. Hmmmmmm..........?
Author:  Bri [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Thanks for all the responses. Sounds like it could make a guitar.
It will indeed dull all blades, bits, edge tools or any thing that tries to cut it.
It is very splintery and creates a nasty orange dust that stains clothing.
I went through around 4k b/f of this one summer, resurfacing a dock for a customer.
My hands were tinted orange, I used up multiple blades, dozens of countersink bits and all my light colored tshirts.
When I get time I will attempt to resaw some b&s, though I am nervous for my $250 lennox blade.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Account for the cost of your 250$ Lennox blade in the set prices, and price of finished instruments.
Author:  Bri [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
meddlingfool wrote:
Account for the cost of your 250$ Lennox blade in the set prices, and price of finished instruments.

Yeah, the only problem is that I give away all the guitars I make, and I have a hard time parting with wood. I have more wood than I will ever use, but I may trade for parts.
Author:  ernie [ Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
I used a timberwolf 3/4in blade 143 in 3 tpi from suffolk machinery . You could use a way cheaper blade ? and save your carbide BS blades
Author:  Dennis E. [ Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
A several years ago I spent about an hour tapping on a bunch of ipe boards at a local lumberyard. I couldn't get anything but dull thuds. I haven't thought about using it since then. My luthier skills are not very advanced -- if I can't make it sing as a raw board, the odds are I won't be able to make it sing as an instrument.
Author:  Bri [ Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Dennis E. wrote:
A several years ago I spent about an hour tapping on a bunch of ipe boards at a local lumberyard. I couldn't get anything but dull thuds. I haven't thought about using it since then. My luthier skills are not very advanced -- if I can't make it sing as a raw board, the odds are I won't be able to make it sing as an instrument.


Agree with that!
But... What will it sound like at .100"? I can't seem to figure out this whole tap thing. When I read about some board " ringing like a bell"," rings forever", "incredible tap", I just don't get what I am supposed to hear. Most stuff sounds like dull thuds to me,but yet my last two completed builds sounded excellent.
Seems like there are so many variables it becomes part art part science.
Author:  DennisK [ Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Bri wrote:
Agree with that!
But... What will it sound like at .100"? I can't seem to figure out this whole tap thing. When I read about some board " ringing like a bell"," rings forever", "incredible tap", I just don't get what I am supposed to hear. Most stuff sounds like dull thuds to me,but yet my last two completed builds sounded excellent.
Seems like there are so many variables it becomes part art part science.

Yeah, big thick boards don't usually ring very well. Fingerboards (before slotting) usually do though, so if anyone has tried ipe for that and it still thunked, maybe it really is a thunky wood. I would have guessed it would ring, but you never really know until you tap an appropriately sized piece.

If you do slice up that ipe board, I could trade you a lively Honduran rosewood parlor set so you can see what you're missing :)

But yeah, thunky wood seems to work just fine for steel strings at least.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
Now that carbide tooling has become common place many of the tough tropical trees that were once unworkable are being cut down and sawn into boards and used for flooring, decks, and furniture. Like Dennis K. , for steel string guitars I don't worry too much about the "tap tone" of the back and sides. I have used stuff that taps like tupperware and had good results.
Author:  Ken Lewis [ Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ipe for B&S?
"taps like tupperware "
Good one, that's funny!. I can hear it clearly as I read.
Ken
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