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| Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45997 |
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| Author: | rtpipkin [ Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I figure this subject is not a big deal in the scheme of things and suspect purely cosmetic, but for those using reverse kerfed linings, I've found it somewhat more difficult to hide breaks in the linings than on the standard kerfed since the web is outward facing in the box. I can make the transition look good but still noticeable to me, from one piece of lining to the next. I like the other aspects of reverse kerf linings, but also like using different length scraps to make the linings and reduce waste which mean that the linings stop an start at random positions on the sides. Any thoughts or tips on that to make the inside of the box look cleaner? Or should,I simply be looking at making that transition cleaner in the first place? |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I thought it was silly at first to pre-bend something so bendable, but I stick my reverse kerf linings in the Fox bender before installing them. Now I don't have any breaks. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I won't use a broken piece of reversed lining. I agree, it's hard to make it look clean. It could just be me, but the regular lining always seemed more flexible. Certainly, it's more repairable. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
This is how I prep the RR http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/RE ... RFING.html |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
kencierp wrote: Wow that is an interesting test you did. I had no idea that it stiffened up the sides by that much. I guess I'll stick to the solid linings I like to use  Brilliant idea on how to bend them perfectly too! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") Could you also just cut the kerf deeper too? I know that is kind of a PIA if you buy them precut. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I suppose you could glue a strip of veneer the full length of the linings after they are in to reinforce the breaks/gaps and tie it all together back into a solid piece. That would recapture the stiffness of reversed kerf linings. You could also dress it up with a contrasting veneer or one that matches the side wood. All that said, I don't think I would bother unless there were several breaks visible through the soundhole. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I've been a fan of RK linings too and used them on very nearly every guitar that I ever built. I'll also second Ken's excellent toot about just how stiff these linings are AND how stiff they make the rim. Once my RK linings were on the rim could come out of the mold as Ken said. When using more than one piece to wrap the rim I would plan my joins to be on the fairly flat section where the waist transitions to the lower bout. I also would use a small miter box and a Zona saw and cut the two mating pieces at 45 degree angles and butt them together. SInce the rim is close to flat in this location it always worked very well for me. Also I picked up one of those plastic trays for wall paper and to make them more flexible I would soak them in very hot water for about 60 seconds, pad the excess water off and then they were always ready to bend and glue. I learned the soaking trick from Lance and it works great. |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
A bit off topic... Do you guys have any tricks for applying glue to RK? |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I have these at all the gluing operations, I usually work from a little puddle of adhesive on a piece of cardboard. You don't have to clean them like a brush, let the glue dry and it peels right off -- works for me. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/147917 ... piece.aspx |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I do a dry clamp and then run masking tape under the lining. Glue goes on in the normal way (I use brush and finger). After clamping I use a straw cut at an angle to get most of the squeeze out then clean up with a damp rag. Finally I remove the tape before I set it aside to dry. Edit after seeing Ken's post. I use a lot of spreaders too, mine are homemade from credit card samples. The brushes I use are acid brushes - I trim and recrimp them so they don't lose hairs in the glue and then normally toss them when done. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I make my own RK lining. After struggling with breaks, which don't look very professional, I now make them heavy enough that they require a Fox Bender to bend them. Makes for a very stiff rim. I think that's good, right? |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
How do you deal with or prevent glue ending up in the kerfs? Personally, I prefer the look of the non-reverse linings, but the added rigidity of the RK linings is attractive. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
With our (KMG) thin micro kerf RR linings some segment bonding is expected and I think it may add some strength to the assembly. As for appearance -- I've never had a glue mess issue, thin layer on the lining, thin layer on the side. I draw a guide line on the side shy of the lining height. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
J De Rocher wrote: How do you deal with or prevent glue ending up in the kerfs? ... As Ken alluded, it's a matter of technique - a thin layer on the linings and a thin layer on the sides. |
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| Author: | Imbler [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
I thought I might just add what the reason is for Ken's technique of shaping them on the -outside- of the guitar. By using the outside as a form you get the benefit of it supporting the "skin" holding the blocks together, so it won't buckle or break. I'm impressed how well the kerfed lining holds its shape after it dries, and broken section just don't happen to me since I started using that method, Mike |
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| Author: | rtpipkin [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
Thanks everyone! All great ideas, even the off topic as I've wondered about those as well. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reverse Kerfed Lining Cosmetics? |
When I make reverse kerfed linings I sometimes run a decorative edge on the unkerfed sticks- fillet and roundover or fillet and ogee which reduces the amount of "web" area holding the segments together. After kerfing the sticks I run them through the drum sander and reduce the depth of the fillet to make the pieces more bendable. |
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