James,
You can use straight strips around a rosette. I use .062 strips and the flat side of a screw driver tip. Just go slow and try to press very short areas as it breaks in the slot. super glue it in and sand level. Woks for me.
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| Laser for cutting Abalam? http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46032 |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Laser for cutting Abalam? |
I'd like to use Abalam for a rosette with an inner diameter of 4.375" (4 3/8"). Most of the suppliers with curved Abalam strips seem to have them cut with a 4.9" inner diameter. Precision Pearl has them with a 4.66" inner diameter. So as I was surveying my options, I found Chris Paulick's jig in the tutorial section using a bandsaw to cut them; I thought about simplifying by cutting them with my laminate trimmer and circle cutting jig (though I don't know how I'd hold the shell securely); a few folks in the archives say that the strips are flexible enough to be fit into a different diameter; and I thought of the laser we have at the shared workspace I belong to. I've never used the laser, but I've watched some guys use it. A circle with the correct dimensions would be easy enough to draw in the software. Has anyone ever cut Abalam with a laser? Although, if the curved strips really are flexible enough to fit into the diameter I want, that route would be the easiest of all. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Are you confusing Abflex with Abalam? At Larrivee, Abalam was cut on CNC. I would assume for reason. Laser can't cut ebony, so frankly I can't see it being done on laser, and I'm reasonably confident of that. That's a tactful understatement. But my laser knowledge is small. I'd think water jet for that material. But CNC more practical and available. Abalam is completely inflexible. However, if one wants, one can 'crack' it around curves at will using short sections and filling with CA. Some old friends of mine did it that way around larger curves, like abalone bound bindings. Not sure how that would work in a tight rosette line. I would not take that approach. I've never seen it done, though I've seen many CNC rosette rings cut. I would look into Kevin Ryan's (I think) Abflex, if you don't see it as cheating. Or, have it cut on CNC to your specifications, quite precisely. USA has a lot of people in it doing that job, I'm sure. CNC is becoming quite affordable, which my neck carving hands will one day be most grateful for. If you can't find someone your side of the line, I have accommodating friends looking for work, though shipping glittery things across the border can be problematic. If you choose to do it with a circle cutter... Glue the Abalam to 1/4 MDF with titebond or another water soluble glue. Do your cuts, then place the sheets in hot water. Let sit, remove with tweezers. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Are you confusing Abflex with Abalam? At Larrivee, Abalam was cut on CNC. I would assume for reason. Laser can't cut ebony, so frankly I can't see it being done on laser, and I'm reasonably confident of that. That's a tactful understatement. But my laser knowledge is small. I'd think water jet for that material. But CNC more practical and available. Abalam is completely inflexible. However, if one wants, one can 'crack' it around curves at will using short sections and filling with CA. Some old friends of mine did it that way around larger curves, like abalone bound bindings. Not sure how that would work in a tight rosette line. I would not take that approach. I've never seen it done, though I've seen many CNC rosette rings cut. I would look into Kevin Ryan's (I think) Abflex, if you don't see it as cheating. Or, have it cut on CNC to your specifications, quite precisely. USA has a lot of people in it doing that job, I'm sure. CNC is becoming quite affordable, which my neck carving hands will one day be most grateful for. If you can't find someone your side of the line, I have accommodating friends looking for work, though shipping glittery things across the border can be problematic. If you choose to do it with a circle cutter... Glue the Abalam to 1/4 MDF with titebond or another water soluble glue. Do your cuts, then place the sheets in hot water. Let sit, remove with tweezers. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Thanks, computer. I guess I meant that twice as much as I thought? |
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| Author: | klooker [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
You might be able to get through it but I don't know how cleanly. I've laminated the super thin pearl sheet to plastic & cut it with mediocre results but never tried abalam. I'd draw a little 5mm circle with the software and do a test cut. Do you know what the wattage of the laser is? I'd think you'd need at least 75. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Kevin - I don't have any idea how powerful the laser is. I've only watched them use it, but they cut through a lot of material with it. Ed - I've used ZipFlex for all of my rosettes so far, but I'm looking for something wider than they offer this time. Thanks for the tip on the MDF and Titebond. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
meddlingfool wrote: Thanks, computer. I guess I meant that twice as much as I thought? Zipflex. Way to go. Advanced She'll Technology. Click on link above. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
James. You can easily fit a 4.9" radius into the channel you cut. If the Ablam pieces come in segments they will simply fit into a much smaller radius channel and look perfect. If it is a 1 piece rosette you will have to break it in a few places to make it fit. It will also look perfect. Iv'e done many out of solid shell and once you flood the channel with CA it should look mostly perfect. I've used 4 7/8" from here http://www.luthiersupply.com/pearlrosetteinlaypage.html for parlour sound holes and they look great. |
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| Author: | Michael Keller [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
James, You can use straight strips around a rosette. I use .062 strips and the flat side of a screw driver tip. Just go slow and try to press very short areas as it breaks in the slot. super glue it in and sand level. Woks for me.
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
This is something I learned at the ASIA symposium. Yes, abalam can be cut with a laser. It can also set it on fire. I went to a couple of inlay workshops, and the recommended procedure was use straight strips and break them into place as Mr. Keller says. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Rodger Knox wrote: This is something I learned at the ASIA symposium. Yes, abalam can be cut with a laser. It can also set it on fire. Haha! Oh no! And the sheets are so expensive. Learning that lesson that hard way would suck. I'm all about the path of least resistance on this one. I think I'll order some curved strips. I called LMI yesterday to see what they thought, and the technician said the mis-matched radius would be very apparent. However, it makes sense that I could break them into smaller segments as need be. I drew the two radius so that the edges were touching. They were near identical over the span of an inch before the difference was noticeable. Thanks, everyone, for your input and helping me think this one over. |
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| Author: | Kevin Waldron [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Lot of wrong information here! Best to check with laser manufacturer if in doubt. Ebony can be cut on a laser as well as Abalam...... depends on laser, power and skill of operator and the requirements of the job in regards to thickness etc. Blessings, Kevin |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Please specify wrong information. Personally, I would prefer being reinformed over being misinformed. For instance you say ebony can be laser cut but in my last life laser would start it on fire. So I recently sent an ebony thing to a more expensive CNC shop rather than my less expensive laser pal. If the wheels of time have revolted, please enlighten me and afford me the opportunity to catch up. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
I have used 1 inch straight pieces of real abalone, cut to a 4.9 inch diameter, in rosettes as small as 2 3/8 .. it snaps in and looks just fine. abalam has much more colour intensity to it than real shell, so the breaks will be even less noticeable IMO ... |
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| Author: | klooker [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
I wouldn't be concerned about it catching on fire, I cut celluloid on my laser. |
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| Author: | Michael Keller [ Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
James, You can very easily cut full sheets of abalam into strips to help reduce the cost. I use a diamond dremel cutter, $12 at hobby store and a plywood frame to do this. As most of the cost of cut strips is the cnc time it took to cut them, this is a big cost saver. This jig was developed by david taylor, a most remarkable guitar maker. The tray has a high teck rubber band holding system on a sliding tray. If you have any questions just ask.  Michael Keller http://www.kellerguitars.com |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Extra special care with dust collection and respirator:) |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
James, I once had someone cut some logos for me and inlay them into some beautiful headplates that I had, several were bookmatched Brazilian headplates... Most were MOP abalam, and the laser actually burned/melted some of the laminations and they looked terrible. To make matters worse, they didn't take any pains to make sure that the dots and the letters all refracted in the same direction, so that made it look even worse. CNC is your best friend for cutting abalam or other shell materials. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Michael Keller, very nice rosette! These peg head plates could not have arrived at a better time. CNC MOP inlay, courtesy of Andy Birko. He does very nice work. Since I was not using Ebony, this seemed the best way to go. Notice the engraved strings. Get a little Laskins Engraving filler in that. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
Don Williams wrote: CNC and you! Don Williams wrote: is your best friend for cutting abalam or other shell materials. But I ordered some from Rescue Pearl today, from the wonderful Rescue California. I'm just going to break them as I need to like people have suggested. I'll be sure to post the results. |
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| Author: | Linus [ Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
I like the Dremel table saw idea for cutting straight strips. I've been wondering if the micromark mini jigsaw or mini table saw could accomplish this. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser for cutting Abalam? |
I cut straight strips on a full size table saw, using a fret slotting blade and a wooden sled. After my first or second rosette, I heard someone say that Martin used straight strips on the rosettes of the prewar guitars. After studying a few, I had to agree. The abalone on those is usually green heart, or some other dark figure. Every pearl rosette I have done over the last 20+ years has been with straight strips, broken about 1/8" long. 
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