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Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
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Author:  Cablepuller [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Have done a coat of grain filler on the rosewood and sanded it back..but does it need another coat and how can i tell..
I am looking at it in the light and the grains have filler in them. .but how do you know its enough its difficult to see

Thankyou
ImageImage
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Ha ha ha! I can't believe you said that;)
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Just kidding. You're almost certain to need 2 or 3 goes at it. As for how far to take it, it depends on how much work you want to put in now vs later. The flatter your pore filled surface, the flatter you film coat will be. At my old job, it was ok to have just a hint of pores showing before moving to spray, but there's lots of folks who won't move forward until it's exactly dead flat. You'll need to figure out what's best for your methods.

But I don't do finish stuff no more, at least not glossy, so you're sure to have some better informed and explained posts imminently...
Author:  Cablepuller [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Man ..knew id sound stupid lol ..this finishing bit is a minefield..probably get my mate to spray a gloss finish in the end..but i need to sort the prep..will go for 2 or 3 coats as advised ta meddlingfool ..its a real pain as have to protect the sycamore binding each time...but am learning there doesn't seem to be any short cuts with guitar building
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Not a stupid question at all although I can relate to Ed's comments - finishing can be quite the exercise in remaining calm.....

What did you use for filler with the agenda here being let's see if we can advise you as to how much if any the filler that you used tends to shrink back.

I could always tell with epoxy if I had them all filled by viewing from angles in bright light. Epoxy tends to not shrink back hardly at all so what you believe you have may in fact be the reality in time too.

PS: Great looking box - your chops are coming along nicely Cable Guy! [:Y:] [clap]
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Hesh brings up a good point. The degree of difficulty in the pore fill process also depends on the pore fill you choose. If, for example, you had chosen epoxy as a pore fill, no protecting of the bindings would be necessary.
Author:  Glen H [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
I wet mine with naptha lightly and then hold it where the light angles off from it. Unfilled pores tend to show more clearly. I do use epoxy and don't sand all the way back to bare wood.
Author:  Cablepuller [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Thanks hesh its my first scratch build..really enjoying it. .im using thixotropic rosewood filler..on my second coat now ..its really hard work sanding it back though..gonna do 3 coats i think as advised by mf... was gonna use zpoxy as it keeps coming up on here but didn't know enough about it. .
Author:  Cablepuller [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
meddlingfool wrote:
Hesh brings up a good point. The degree of difficulty in the pore fill process also depends on the pore fill you choose. If, for example, you had chosen epoxy as a pore fill, no protecting of the bindings would be necessary.

Thanks mf .. think next time will use zpoxy i think as i guess its clear... do you think its worth a coat of sanding sealer after grain fill?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Zpoxyhas a slight amber tint. I think west systems epoxies are the 'best'. Clear and easy to mix, so if there is variation in the thickness of the layers it doesn't turn splotchy like zpoxy can.

Don't know about the sanding sealer. I think B Howard is our local finish guru...
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Cablepuller wrote:
Thanks hesh its my first scratch build..really enjoying it. .im using thixotropic rosewood filler..on my second coat now ..its really hard work sanding it back though..gonna do 3 coats i think as advised by mf... was gonna use zpoxy as it keeps coming up on here but didn't know enough about it. .


The thixotropic is hard stuff to sand back. Easier wet sanding but it has so much colour that you have to be careful of any light coloured inlays. Never did like the stuff, messy too. The Pumice/Oil method is much easier than thixo.
Author:  kencierp [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
Just a point that Zpoxy is a finishing resin specifically designed for gap filling and easy sanding. Anything is possible but this is the first time I've seen the concern of splotchy appearance. Many top coats (shellac, nitro, etc.) are tinted.

Have the small quantity mixing issues for System Three been resolved? In the past this was a problem if not precise proportions the stuff did not dry.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question..grain filling related
kencierp wrote:
Just a point that Zpoxy is a finishing resin specifically designed for gap filling and easy sanding. Anything is possible but this is the first time I've seen the concern of splotchy appearance. Many top coats (shellac, nitro, etc.) are tinted.

Have the small quantity mixing issues for System Three been resolved? In the past this was a problem if not precise proportions the stuff did not dry.


I've not heard anything to indicate that SIII did anything to make their mix ratio more forgiving. This was also a problem that has reared it's ugly head on this forum a number of times through the years. Get the mix ratio a little off and the stuff won't cure and becomes a gooey mess and a nightmare to remove....

Zpoxy finishing resin does sand well and that's what I used most of the time but toward the end I took the advice of some of the professional finishers who I know and simply went with West Systems. Sands well, cures reliably, and has a decent viscosity to get it into the pores. I have never noticed any shrink back at all and some of the examples that I used Z-Poxy on are nearly 10 years old now and still looking nice and smooth.

By the way whom ever decided that guitars have to be shiny and have all the pores filled should be dug up and shot....:)

Just worked on a Waterloo recreation of a vintage Kalamazoo (G*bson) last Friday and the pores were not filled as was the case with the originals. Didn't look bad IMO and sounded fantastic.

I've said this before and I'll say it again pore filling for me was the most frustrating part of building a guitar and very nearly had me quitting before I even really got started. When I found Mike Doolin's toot on using SIII under KTM-9 it solved all of my problems. Never used KTM-9 and went the lacquer route though. Love how a thin wash coat of epoxy really pops the figure on figured woods - very pretty. Of course observe best safety practices when using epoxy, it can be a sensitizer to some.
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