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How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
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Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Hardly ever do gloss these days, and I've never done one with the cutaway flush like this.

The issue is, I can get the neck to body joint clean on the non cut side...

Image (still a bit of work there, but I'm going to quit while ahead for now)

But the cut side looks like crap, as the finish curves around the corner of the body, creating a valley that will not lie flush. I'm thinking I might need to sand the finish off the body on the cut side down to almost bare wood so that it's not a round corner.

Image
What do you guys do? Cause that really bothers me.
Author:  LanceK [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
I know you know this but you did scoop out the heel and are flossing with THIN sand paper right? Should be able to make that heel fit flush.

I had that same problem with this one

Attachment:
1918175_1242557136830_4029425_n.jpg
Author:  LanceK [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
by the way nice miters and nice nails :-)
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Thanks! Yup, relief cut done. Here's another angle...
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Image
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Here I've wet sanded a bit. You can see the line of roll off between the flat sanded section and the shiny gloss. Bothersome.Image

As well, the finish on the neck was a bit roundedImage over.
Author:  LanceK [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
I see what you mean. On my necks I will use a chisel and carve out the back side of the heel so that there is less than 1/4" of meat touching all the way around. Im not sure this will help you as it looks like you have a different system than me.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
I do the same. The issue lie with paint disliking a proper right angle. Stupid surface tension.Image
Author:  J De Rocher [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Is the round over or roll off in the wood or in the finish? I've only done two of this type of joint, but for both I sanded the wood across both sides of the joint with the neck temporarily attached to prepare for finishing and I also did the level sanding of the finish across the joint during the finish application process with the neck in place. My rationale is that you can't get round over on those edges that way in the wood or the finish .
Author:  DannyV [ Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
I assume you had a perfect fit before you started finishing Ed? That would more than likely mean the finish on the body has been rounded over. I would go back to 4 or 600grit and work around the neck joint area with a HARD block. I always level with dry paper. It's easier to see where you've been. 3M makes a non clog paper that is great for this. I really dislike doing much flossing around the neck joint because it can be a little chippy on the heel edge.

If you can get a little better fit before you start flossing it might make your life easier. That looks like a lot of flossing with 220 grit.
Author:  Toonces [ Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
It doesn't help you with this situation - but in the future, leave about 1/16" offset for the heel against that edge as it still looks very good. Getting a perfectly flush neck joint on the cutaway side with separately finished neck/body is very challenging from a finishing standpoint. IMO, the only solution would be to spray a fairly thick finish at that location -- thick enough, to allow you to level sand completely and get a very sharp edge on the cutaway side. Then you would have to polish very, very carefully.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
J De Rocher wrote:
Is the round over or roll off in the wood or in the finish? I've only done two of this type of joint, but for both I sanded the wood across both sides of the joint with the neck temporarily attached to prepare for finishing and I also did the level sanding of the finish across the joint during the finish application process with the neck in place. My rationale is that you can't get round over on those edges that way in the wood or the finish .


+1
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Fit was flush before finish. It's the finish itself rounding the corner causing trouble. Might take it down to wood under the neck. Set aside for now.,.
Author:  RustySP [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Maybe get the joint perfect as you can and spray the neck and body together?


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Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
I very much feel the neck and body should be easily separated.

Had to settle for this...

Image

Ended up sanding back to wood under the neck til just under the heelcap.

Next time, I'll do the wet sanding myself, or leave a litte area for the paint to round over.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
I think the problem is that you are combining a "Martin" style finishing regimen (separate neck and body) with a "Guild" heel design where this body to neck joint was finished once they were joined.
When they introduced the cutaway Martin's approach was to maintain their traditional "Spanish" heel shape.
Repairmen still swear at Guild (for several reasons) but not the least of which their practice of finishing body and neck (Gibson too?) together.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Another way of making it better would have been to align and bolt the neck on before wet sanding that joint. Could have gotten it much smoother I'm sure. Or yes, kept a more normal curvy heel.
Author:  Toonces [ Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
That is a very good idea, Ed. Honestly tho', I think offsetting the neck just a little bit still looks very good and is easier. Here's what I do for my instruments - the heel lays inside the cutaway edge by 1/32" to 1/16". The finish still has to be leveled perfectly and that edge also has to be kept as hard as possible

Image
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Personally, I think the little bit of extra work it takes to get a smooth transition is worthwhile. Just my preference. And all that the extra work really amounts to is just putting the neck on and taking it off a few times so you can do the sanding of the wood and the finish in that area with the joint closed.

Image
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you address this gloss finish fit issue?
Toonces and J, your design each have some advantages...

Toonces, I'll probably do that next time, or go with a French style heel. I do 95+% satin finish where that transition is seamless...

J, the flat planes lend well to that joint. Mine transitions immediately into a curve. As well, the coplanar heelcap allows you to sand the finish off the inside edge more or less entirely, whereas I had to feather in a ledge so there was finish past the heelcap. Next time...l
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