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Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46987		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  TRein [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
I've been using ladder rods for truss rods on the advice of John Greven. The size I have been using is 14" long which works for 24.9" and 25.4" scales. Standard 10-32 threads. Shoot me a PM if you might be interested. These are for builders who prefer single rods and the purpose of this post is not to debate the merits of double or single rods.
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Mind posting a picture?
Author:  TRein [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Basically they are one piece rods with 1-1/2" of thread on one end and a stamped truss head on the other. The diameter of the unthreaded portion is .166". If you Google "ladder rod" you can find an image. Here is a page of a ladder rod manufacturer:
http://www.magnumbolts.com/manufacturer-ladder-rods.html
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Got it. So what "stamped" end do you use so it doesn't turn in the neck blank? I've made my own single action rods for a few guitars so I know how they work but don't see how these ladder rods would hold well buried in the neck.....
Author:  TRein [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Grind a flat in the truss head (down to the shaft) which gives it a facet to keep it from turning in the neck. I go a little overkill: after grinding a flat I embed the truss end in a length of 3/16" x 1/2" rectangular brass tubing. Drill a 3/16" hole all the way through the brass rectangular tubing at the bottom edge. With a Dremel burr grind one side of the brass tubing in kind of a 1/2 moon shape, big enough to let the truss head slide in an butt up against the face that only has the 3/16" hole drilled in it. Run some tape around the open end of the brass tubing and fill with little epoxy. A heat lamp liquefies the epoxy and you wind up with an anchor that can't come loose or rotate. Or, just grind a flat on the truss head and bottom that out on the slot you cut for the truss head.
Author:  TRein [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Oh yeah, forgot to mention why these work so well. The shaft is slightly less than 3/16". This allows you to wrap the rod in a sleeve or plastic wrap of some sort to keep the rod from rattling and also to ensure the rod will move easily lengthwise through the channel as you tighten or loosen the nut.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
TRein wrote:
Oh yeah, forgot to mention why these work so well. The shaft is slightly less than 3/16". This allows you to wrap the rod in a sleeve or plastic wrap of some sort to keep the rod from rattling and also to ensure the rod will move easily lengthwise through the channel as you tighten or loosen the nut.


I thought the purpose of this thread was not to discuss merits? But since u did, would mind explaining why they would effectively compete with a martin style double acting truss rod? At 50 cents, I gotta know. Especially if Grevan is using them :)

Thank you
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Mike O'Melia wrote:
TRein wrote:
Oh yeah, forgot to mention why these work so well. The shaft is slightly less than 3/16". This allows you to wrap the rod in a sleeve or plastic wrap of some sort to keep the rod from rattling and also to ensure the rod will move easily lengthwise through the channel as you tighten or loosen the nut.


I thought the purpose of this thread was not to discuss merits? But since u did, would mind explaining why they would effectively compete with a martin style double acting truss rod? At 50 cents, I gotta know. Especially if Grevan is using them :)

Thank you


I'm assuming (mom said never to do that but what the heck...) that he's comparing this rod to a typical 3/16" single action rod you can buy from Stew Mac, which isn't wrapped.

As for single action versus double action....If built right, a single action rod can actually be used like a double action rod can. What you do after gluing the fretboard on is to tighten the rod so the neck has some back bow. Then sand it level, effectively making the rod "flat" thus allowing one to either tighten for more back bow or loosen the rod for some forward bow of the neck, effectively it becomes a two way rod. Gibson has hundreds of thousands of guitars out there with single action rods. They just work too. With the property care (a little white grease on the nut from time to time) a single action rod will service the guitar fine for years.
Author:  bluescreek [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Gibson used that design way back . They are a a good way to make a truss rod.
Author:  TRein [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Rod, Stewmac sells a similar rod but it is meant for electric guitars with a length of 18-1/4". Their straight 3/16" diameter rod kit they sell is different in that both ends are threaded with one end anchored and peened in the barrel bolt. The ladder rod is one piece so no worries about the anchor end ever letting loose. Plus, the diameter is less than 3/16" which is important if you want to use a 3/16" slot. Single rods need to be able to slide their entire length to work their best. Wrapping the shaft part of the rod with plastic keeps the rod sliding smoothly and keeps any glue from the filler strip impeding the action.

Mike, many builders prefer single rods and I'm not trying to proselytize either way. For me a single rod equals less metal which equals more wood
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
If you split an order with someone and still don't actually need 500, you might consider posting to the Gateway Luthier group to see if anyone wants a smaller quantity. I would potentially be interested in a dozen or fewer at a buck or two a piece. It might be easier on you if all you have to do is bring them to Hibdon and have them all picked up at once. . . Just a thought.
Author:  TRein [ Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Ok, just a little bit of proselytizing (and a bump).
If you have ever adjusted a Taylor truss rod you no doubt know how easy it is and how well it works. Taylor uses a rod nearly identical to the ladder rods I'm using.
If you want a minimum of 100 rods I can price them at $1 each, which covers my time in handling. More than 100 please contact me.
Author:  kencierp [ Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
I had some correspondence with John Greven regarding these rods and mention that when I made a few guitars with this type rod I always routed a curved bottom channel and had a curved filler strip on top here's what he wrote back:

Ken;
Many outfits do a curved channel, like Fender, but Gibson has always done the flat channel that follows the thickness change in the neck, so a thin neck is flat and a much tapered older neck slopes down to the heel a bit. i do them flat and my necks only change about .045" from one end to the other, so I don't ramp the slot and they work really well. It's just a little scary shaping the neck by hand knowing the rod is not so far away from the cutting.

The best way to check where the rod is is with a rare earth magnet. Test the feel of the magnet with the rod over a known thickness of wood then check the neck. It is very easy and obvious.
John
Author:  TRein [ Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Ken, I have done it both ways: curved like Fender and straight like Taylor. For me the straight rod works much better and with less torque required on the nut to counteract string tension. John set me "straight" on this.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Will a single action rod distort the neck in the long term?
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Do you use the Gibson style nut Stew Mac sells or is there another type you prefer? If the rods are smaller than 3/8ths are the threads the full diameter of the rod?
Author:  TRein [ Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anybody want to split an order of 1000 truss rods?
Tai Fu wrote:
Will a single action rod distort the neck in the long term?


There are many, many 60-year-old (and older) Gibsons out there with this style rod that play perfectly. Taylor makes 500 guitars a day with this style rod. Say what you will about Taylor but they don't do anything by accident.

Clay, the threads extend 1-1/2" from one end and are a standard 10-32 thread. I use a standard Gibson-stlye brass nut. The threads are rolled rather than cut. I don't know what that process is but I think it makes it possible for the shaft to have a smaller diameter than the threaded portion.
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