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help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
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Author:  Guitarizzmo [ Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
I am refinishing a neck through body laminated Conklin 7 string bass blue. The neck is an ultra hard and dense maple with hard but somewhat porous purple heart laminates, the back is swamp ash, and the top (wings) are a softer flamed maple:
Attachment:
Front and back sm.JPG

I am trying to come up with a finishing schedule, but it is not that easy: The swamp ash needs pore filling, especially around the sides, and the flamed maple and purple heart wood could use some too.

I have TransTint dyes, and KTM-SV gloss (Water based Poly), and the Z-Poxy should arrive any day now.

If I fill the pores with Z-Poxy, and tone the KTM, then it will not pop the grain of the flame maple. If I dye the thing first, then the rather large swamp ash pores can leave a fish eye appearance because of surface tension and the dye not getting into the pores. I know that using the right mix of TransTint, alcohol and lacquer thinner will work to prevent that, but then I would have to spray it on, and I do not have spray equipment and risk blotching. So I was thinking of toning the Z-Poxy, and filling the swamp ash with it, but not the flamed maple top as that may kill the grain pattern.

First questions: I am rather new to Z-Poxy and can use some recommendations on toning it with TransTint, you know: the little details they don't tell you to watch out for, like color acceptance and changes thereof when mixing or in applying the KTM finish, stirred or shaken... I could not find much on the subject, maybe it is to new a product.

Will filling the flamed maple with toned Z-poxy kill the look, or will it pop like I want it to?

I am toying with taping off the top, and neck portions, filling the swamp ash only, and using the dye as I always have on everything else, but have had bad experiences with dye bleeding underneath tape, and must avoid it at all cost. So, is there a brand of tape that will seal it well enough to prevent bleeding, and not react with the dye solution, or leave residues?

I have been using water based poly for years now, but am new to KTM-SV. Will it fill the pores without soaking in to bad or dimple on curing, allowing me to omit the Z-Poxy and just use sander sealer instead?

My client is a good friend, who I warned about my lack of experience with dyes, and he is aware that it may go south, but assured me that he understands the risk, and he won't kill me if something goes wrong, but I would rather have it go right.

Any help would be greatly appreciated in solving this puzzle.
Author:  Colin North [ Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXl8A4_XrTg [:Y:]
laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe
Author:  Nils [ Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
I'd start running some tests and see what you like. It sounds like you already know everything I'm about to say, but maybe this will help..

Where you have the dye makes a huge difference in what the finished instrument looks likes like for sure...so z-poxy with dye in it will make the maple look like this...this is dye on bare wood, with clear finish on top. (there was no epoxy involved, but I'd imagine that tint in the z-poxy will do the same thing to the grain. See how it brings out the smaller lines?)
Image
And this right here is just a clear finish over a piece of maple from the same board.
Image


The picture quality is different..but from my experience, I think maple "pops" a little better without dye in it. Also very different looks. In my opinion, the bass would look better without any tint directly on the wood. I'd stick the tint in the finish.

Another reason to stick the tint in the finish instead of the epoxy would be in case you mess up...much easier to sand back to bare wood.
Author:  B. Howard [ Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
I would not tint an epoxy pore fill. To difficult to to leave an even layer and therefore an even color.

Another problem may be the slight amber tint of Z-poxy will turn green when blue dye is added. This may be a problem even if the blue is applied over or under the amber Z-poxy as well.

It is hard for me to come up with a finish schedule as these are not my materials of choice. Typically I would fill and seal everything and then sand out at 600 and spray a trans blue shader and then my clears. You will be surprised how how lively the flamed maple looks under that.

But I also see you mention you have no spray equipment.......a finish like you describe will be tough to get without it IMO. This pretty much locks you into staining the bare wood and applying finish however (brush?), anything else will wind up looking uneven or blotchy.
Author:  Guitarizzmo [ Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
Thanks guys, My greatest fear was the visibility of the flame.

Colin: I always wanted to paint a guitar abstract (not with the bucket dip method), but that guy could use a lot less of the stuff if he had better aim, half of it ended up on the table! May be a little thick for a guitar too.

Nils: Not my choice, it was "au natural", and I was asked to dye it blue, I like natural oil finished wood myself, but translucent finishes are "In". In your first picture did you use a sander sealer first? I have not used my amber dye yet, but did a flamed maple top with the blue after sealing and sanding, and the lines did not darken up much, but the flame intensified. I had the dye well diluted for better control and used many applications to get the right shade. It's things like this that makes finishing so scary; varying results.

Brian, that was one answer I was looking for, I have never toned a finish before, and was wondering if it was a good Idea to do it without spraying. I may just have to omit the Z-Poxy, dye the wood and concentrate more finish in the porous areas (the sides). I have brushed Water based poly before and it turned out great, but not the KTM.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXl8A4_XrTg [:Y:]
laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe


Yeah, I bet that stuff is a real tone killer....
Author:  DannyV [ Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
IMHO. Forgo the pore fill. Bursts rock and it is wood. Wood can be porous. Not the end of the world especially on the back. The other alliterative would be to mask off. A bit of work but quite doable.
Author:  Guitarizzmo [ Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: help with translucent finishing a laminated bass
Danny, blue burst would be something new, any tape brand suggestions? The stuff I have can't stop the dye from bleeding.
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