Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans

So, I'm about to take the plunge and start my first acoustic build. I'm finishing up my second scratch electric and I think I'm addicted.

I've pretty much settled on building a 00 size since I already have a nice Dreadnaught and I like the idea have having a smaller guitar around the house.

I bought a set of plans for an old Gibson L-00 from Georgia Luthier Supply.

In the side-profile plans it shows the top completely flat, and the bottom has a weird slanted, squiggly line. That can't be correct, can it? I must be missing something here. Anyone have any Idea?

Here is a picture.

Also, it looks like this model has side braces. Are those necessary? I've never seen a build with those.

Should I try and find another 00 set of plans?

Author:	broken1812 [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:	First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
So, I'm about to take the plunge and start my first acoustic build. I'm finishing up my second scratch electric and I think I'm addicted. I've pretty much settled on building a 00 size since I already have a nice Dreadnaught and I like the idea have having a smaller guitar around the house. I bought a set of plans for an old Gibson L-00 from Georgia Luthier Supply. In the side-profile plans it shows the top completely flat, and the bottom has a weird slanted, squiggly line. That can't be correct, can it? I must be missing something here. Anyone have any Idea? Here is a picture. Also, it looks like this model has side braces. Are those necessary? I've never seen a build with those. Should I try and find another 00 set of plans?

Author:	tysam [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
The plans from Georgia always have the radiussed sides drawn into the template as well as the straight pre-radiussed line.. Since I use a radius dish to sand mine down I've always used the straight cut measurement when I use their plans so I don't know how accurate their radiussed template is. The top is flat for the side template but should be radiused to whatever the plans say your brace and top radius is before the top is attached. Hope that helps. Also, as far as side braces are concerned...yes, put them in....

Author:	Alex Kleon [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
The top edge of the sides starts out flat, and is later profiled with a radius sanding dish after the sides are bent and assembled. The vertilcal lines are just reference points for side depth at the waist and upper and lower bouts. Side reinforcement is not mandatory, but not a bad idea, to help prevent side cracks. The back profile shows the curvature that allows for the taper from the head to the tail block, and the radius of the domed back. If you did a straight taper, shown as the blue dashed line, you won't have sufficient depth at the waist to dome the back. Hopefully this helps, and that others can chime in, if I have my facts wrong. Alex

Author:	Colin North [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
Re side supports. They are a good idea, but should be inlet into the linings or they can kind of create the problem they are supposed to cure. This can be a bit "fiddly", for a first build especially. There is a alternative, a bit less woodwork involved, using bias tape - see this post. http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46970&p=621736&hilit=+tape#p621736

Author:	Clinchriver [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
broken1812 wrote: So, I'm about to take the plunge and start my first acoustic build. I'm finishing up my second scratch electric and I think I'm addicted. I've pretty much settled on building a 00 size since I already have a nice Dreadnaught and I like the idea have having a smaller guitar around the house. I bought a set of plans for an old Gibson L-00 from Georgia Luthier Supply. In the side-profile plans it shows the top completely flat, and the bottom has a weird slanted, squiggly line. That can't be correct, can it? I must be missing something here. Anyone have any Idea? Here is a picture. Also, it looks like this model has side braces. Are those necessary? I've never seen a build with those. Should I try and find another 00 set of plans? I had a box ready for finish and it got dropped about 3' on a concrete floor it bounced and the lower back seam popped loose, the sides were fine. I use HHG & poly-cotten 5/8 ribbon like you see in a Martin, it works.

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Author:	bcombs510 [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
I'm just starting out as well. I would advise buying two radius dishes. One for the top, maybe 30' and one for back, maybe 15'. They make it really easy to get a good radius on the rims. When you install the kerfing, maybe let it stick up just a bit above the sides and radius again. That way you are putting a radius on the kerfing. Don't get the top and back mixed up! Good luck. Also, I tried to make my own radius dish. It was a colossal mess. Buy them from LMI or one of the dealers in the OLF sponsor list. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	truckjohn [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
The plans are drawn with flat top rims because that is how the old Gibson's were made. The radius dish is a relatively new innovation. They would shape the braces to a fair curve, glue them to the top, then glue the top to the flat rim. Some old Gibson's (and many budget guitars) also used flat bottom rims as well. With the old guitars with sloped backs - they would shape the profile into the sides before bending. They never really matched a true radius. They way it was done matches the Cumpiano book pretty closely. All that is a long way around saying that you don't need to buy radius dishes for your first build. Thanks

Author:	Alex Kleon [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
If you want to try your hand at making radius dishes, OLF member Chris Paulick's video was very helpful when I made mine. http://youtu.be/tvGemvizrz4 Alex

Author:	Tom West [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
Another way to do radius disc. http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/sho ... adius-Dish Tom

Author:	klooker [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
I've built L-00's & OM's from these plans http://www.grellier.fr/plans.php?lang=en

Author:	broken1812 [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
Thanks for the responses. I had always assumed the braces made the top and back curve and they were just glued on to straight sides...I've seen a few youtube videos with people just doing that as well. I've still got a lot to learn! I think I'll end up purchasing a radius dish just to get it as correct as possible. Would the top and back even line up with the sides if they're not radiused?

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
I made my own radius dishes. Amazed I figured it out. Saved the jig. Couldn't explain the process if I wanted to. Something about a long compass. All that is in the shop. But once you've built the dish, it's a lifelong companion. And messy? Omg. You will be cleaning up the dust for at least a year. Lol! But here is my insight. Building a radius dish will invoke a deeper understanding of the guitar geometry.

Author:	Colin North [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
broken1812 wrote: .................................... Would the top and back even line up with the sides if they're not radiused? Almost anything will fit if you clamp it hard enough

Author:	Ken McKay [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
Truck John is correct. If you avoid using the radius dish method it will result in a guitar that is similar to your plan. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Author:	Woodsy23 [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
Don't forget that the side profile in the plans from Georgia Luthier Supply (where the back attaches) will be for a specific back radius. You will have to buy a dish with that specific radius if you want to use the profile on the drawing. Richard

Author:	truckjohn [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
Once again - Gibson never used radius dishes back when these original designs were made.... Not for the top.... Not for the back..... The back profile on the print does not match any specific "radius" profile. But is rather best described as "curved". The curve longways is different from the curve crossways - but that is a result of the construction methods. The most accurate way to reproduce the shapes on those old Gibson's you see is to cut the sides to the shown profile, cut the braces to the shown profile, then assemble per Cumpiano. If you want to use radius dishes - they are handy.... go right ahead. Just don't think that they will mimic the original design. Thanks

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First Acoustic Build...Question about Plans
If you cut it straight, then maybe avoid the profile dish. If you were to take a body mold of this guitar and line the inside with blue tape, then lay the mold in a radius dish, you can obtain that very curve seen in the drawing. Pick a washer with a small hole that is tall enough to always have the blue tape show through it. Roll it on sanding dish, using inside of mold to keep standing. Put a pencil point in that hole. Trace it out on the tape. Pull the tape out and lay on your drawing. It will match the "squiggly" line. Notice that in places, there is more wood OUTSIDE the straight line. If you were to profile the sides with straight lines, you would end up decreasing height at neck and butt blocks (guitar body will be thinner). If your goal is to mimic the original design, no dish If your goal is a modern interpretation with all the nice looks, cut sides to squiggly, and profile from there (once bent). Keep a close eye on the waist line when bending these.