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Gibson B-25
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Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Gibson B-25
So, a recent client who purchased one of my coco OLF SJs brought this to me. No belly bulge. No obvious neck problems. Sentimental value. Dad gave it to him after original purchase. Got to be at least 40 years old if not a few more. Blue book search has it about $800. Probably less. Finished is crazed. Badly. Bridge needs replacement. Is this one that should be maintained as is? Just fix the bridge? Should it be refinished?
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
From a collectors standpoint I'd say just fix what really needs to be fixed and do it with a many original parts as possible.

But from an owner point of view I would do as they wished. I'm sure it has much sentimental value to the owner and he may want it to look like it did back in the day his father gave it to him, or maybe not.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
I think it would be shame to refinish it. I've owned several flat tops and archtops from the 40s and 50s and most of them had crazed finishes and battle scars which gave them character that was earned and would be completely absent from a nice new shiny finish. If the finish isn't falling off, I would hope the owner would leave it as is.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
We see lots of these and there is a video on our site, http://www.annarborguitars.com detailing the genuine, imitation pl*stic bridge replacement. Since we did the video folks try to send these to us from all over the place but we won't accept shipped in work since the post office is a whole 80 feet away....:)

Anyway Mike see our site for some assistance.

Also no on the refinishing, it will lose around half it's value if someone refinishes it AND I think that they look very cool "as is." And YES on doing what it takes to make it functional, new wooden bridge, remove all the metal hardware, reglue braces if necessary, fret dress, new nut, even a neck reset if it needs it.

We value them in the $800 range too and that is for one that is completely playable meaning that the neck has been reset if that needs to be done.

Because these were built in our neck of the woods we see them frequently.

How do you like that 1.5" nut.... pretty skinny for me. Here's a link to our video page, I think it's the second one before the one where Dave removes a bridge with a hatchet.....

http://www.annarborguitars.com/styled-4/index.html
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
I'm guessing the truss rod is single action? And those tuners look and feel like crap. Is it ok to update those? As for the adjustable bridge, do I reuse that part?
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
It all goes back to that "what's appropriate for the instrument" thing.

Since this old girl has a cool vintage vibe here is my approach:

1) Try to service and preserve the tuners perhaps replacing the buttons only if they are cracking or turning to dust as they do
2) Remove all metal bridge hardware, plug the holes and make a shop made bridge and glue it on as usual
3) Reset the neck if needed
4) Dress frets, refret if needed
5) New bone nut and bone saddle
6) Reglue any loose braces
7) Inspect the bridge plate for pin hole wear, cap if need be, convert to unslotted pins
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Lose the saddle chassis too and go conventional with a bone saddle
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Those look like crappy tuners. I'll be surprised if the saddle-Matic matches that slot angle!
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Those look like crappy tuners. I'll be surprised if the saddle-Matic matches that slot angle!


If the tuners need replacement the Stew-Mac Golden age tuners are excellent and I have been very impressed with them. I'd do some measuring before ordering to be sure but I think that the SM tuners may be direct replacements.

Regarding the location of the saddle slot believe it or not G*bson used shop-made jigs for locating everything and Heritage who now occupies the same Parson's Street facility still does it that way too. It's very possible that the saddle could be better located as well but regardless if you nix the original chassis and go convention you have an opportunity to make it right.

This one, this B-25 looks in pretty good shape considering. We have a number of clients who have these and love them so they can be really cool little guitars. I wouldn't mind having one myself as well but am waiting for a basket case to come along that I can get for a song and do the heavy lifting restoration myself.

Take a long look inside it's telling. Where many of us jump through hoops to make the inside of our boxes look neat and tidy back in the day G*bson was not into that... You will see copious amounts of squeeze-out, glue globs, saw marks on braces, etc. None of this of course ever stopped these from being cool little guitars.

I'm also a sucker for a vintage G*bson burst, my personal favorites.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
One more thing, it's par for the course to have the p*ck guard lifting and that can easily be fixed by removing and regluing.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
That pick Guard must weigh a pound
Author:  John Arnold [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Quote:
I'm guessing the truss rod is single action?


Yes. Double action truss rods were pretty much unknown in the 1960's, and IMHO rarely are needed with a mahogany neck.

Under no circumstances would I refinish a vintage guitar because of simple crazing. Whenever I am asked, I explain that refinishing a guitar with crazed original finish severely reduces value, and costs several hundred dollars.

I would repair the original Brazilian rosewood bridge, rather than replacing it. The bridge failed because Gibson made little effort to do a good job gluing them on....in the mistaken notion that the adjustable saddle hardware and screws under the pearl dots would suffice. The bridge crack can be glued with CA, and once the bridge is properly glued down, is not likely to fail again.
The metal adjusting hardware can be removed, the wide slot filled with rosewood, and a 1/8" slot for a fixed bone saddle can be cut.
Author:  Ken McKay [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
There could be a case made to leave the saddle as is. Just something to think about.
Author:  surveyor [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
I've owned my B-25N for over 40 yrs. I still play it, probably 3 -4 times a week. I would try to just fix the bridge by duplicating the existing one if the old one can't be fixed. It's up to you about taking the work of refinishing it. If I were the client I would keep it as close to original as possible. Those are Kluson delux tuners and mine seem to have lasted pretty darn good. They can be lubricated, etc. You might advise your client that it would be money well spent to ditch the old cardboard case and get a hardshell one with a humidifier stick.
Author:  CraigG [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
You might consider using an extra wide compensated bone saddle to fit into the existing saddle slot instead of filling it and reslotting
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
I like to replace those with the bone saddles too and then they can have the original saddle in the case for any future considerations. Also +1 on the Golden Age tuners. I just got in a set of those Saturday to check out and see if I like them and I think they are fantastic reproductions.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
jfmckenna wrote:
I like to replace those with the bone saddles too and then they can have the original saddle in the case for any future considerations. Also +1 on the Golden Age tuners. I just got in a set of those Saturday to check out and see if I like them and I think they are fantastic reproductions.


Yeah aren't the Golden Age tuners nice! I've installed them several times now and after working with them I would not hesitate to put them on a newly built guitar either. Great product!
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Whilst the golden age tuners may be good, in this case I would stick with the original tuners if they can be rehabbed or with closed back 3 on a plate Klusons with the original small eyelet bushings. It's what they had back in the day and looks right.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Anybody got an oversized BRW bridge blank? 6 1/2 x 1 3/4"
Author:  jack [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
I haven't read every reply Mike, but from what I see in your picture, the shafts of the one tuning plate look straight and the tuner buttons look pretty good for a guitar of that age... I'd say clean them up , maybe a little light oil in the in the access holes on the back ... and if it were me, I'd leave that fine looking burst alone. I'd say that 800.00 is a bit low for that guitar,even needing a reset..I bet in Huntsville, it'd go for closer to 1800.00- 2000.00, maybe more with the original bridge repaired properly. It looks mid 60's to me
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
I don't see any bad crazing in the pictures, the finish actually looks pretty good to me, I see no reason for a refinish. I'd remove the hardware from the bridge and fix tit as John Arnold suggests, I've done it a number of times on these, and it is a big improvement. Fix whatever else is cracked or lose, and make it playable with as few alterations as possible. Definitely keep the tuners if they work OK.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
I do not intend to refinish. Owner has decided against this based on unexpected value. It's a single family owner. Mid 60's. My intent is to rebuild the bridge. It's pretty crumbly. The tuners are pretty crappy, but I will attempt a rehab. There's a crack in soundboard near fret board. Easy fix. No look inside yet. No strings to check neck yet. Super thick bullet proof pick guard is fully attached. But I have totally decided to go with a repair and shine and rehab. That's it. New case. New nut. But the owner wants the bridge replaced. So if you have said blank, PM me and I'll send you funds.

Guitar is rehumidifying. Thanks got all of the advice. You guys rock
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Got the bridge off and the hardware. It was not glued to the top. Some kind of filler wood on bottom of bridge? What for? Bridge was fairly dry rotted. Finger board is badly gouged up and down length. Frets have grooves. Do I remove frets, sand, refret? Do I fill all of those holes under bridge? Saddle matic confirmed saddle location. Little crack near sound hole. Mysterious crack-like issue in pick guard that runs to top. Can't feel anything under top there. All bracing is solid.

Thoughts?
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Could fretboard be dry too? Could pulling frets ruin it?

This guitar was played a lot.

Btw, saddle was rose wood

Serial on headstock is 904116. I have been unable to date it yet.
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson B-25
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Could fretboard be dry too? Could pulling frets ruin it?

This guitar was played a lot.

Btw, saddle was rose wood

Serial on headstock is 904116. I have been unable to date it yet.


I'm pretty sure that pickguard was only used in '68.
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