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| Bending wood is fun, no? http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47195 |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bending wood is fun, no? |
I don't know what it is, but I love starting a new project. And bending is my favorite part. It's where you first see it's gonna be a guitar. Speaking of which. I want an iPhone app controlled bending blanket with temperature feedback. An integrated camera video feed would be nice too. Don't tell me it can't be done. Anyways, it's nice leaving the tyrany of precision finishing behind for some relatively rough treatment of the wood. 
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| Author: | Ken McKay [ Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
It's all fun an games until you feel the crack 
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
That's happened to me once so far. Pin knot. Wood dealer graciously replaced it. Though, I don't count on that every time. |
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| Author: | gregorio [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
The first thing I see is the back..... Not knowing (much) I've made the mistake of taking the time to plane and join the back only to move onto the sides and mangle them! So I am changing my workflow to bending...... then joining. |
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| Author: | Quine [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
I love bending the sides...Especially when you're working with wood that smells nice. Its a mix of high stress and big reward that makes it fun. Also nice that it doesn't make a pile of sawdust or chips to clean up |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
The most fun I have building a guitar is bending sides and carving braces. I have an old Overholtzer bending machine for dreads, but I still prefer to bend by hand with the hot pipe. I have sold a lot of guitar sets over the years, but I can only recall one time when sides were broken, and I replaced them gratis. I try to select straight-grained wood for sides, and only sell wood that I am willing to use myself. It has been a winning formula. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Side bending on a pipe, carving braces and neck carving are probably my favourite things. Apart from first string up of a new gitr of course. |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Neck carving for me - I love seeing the neck emerge from the hunk o' wood, and the relaxing flow of the process. I can't imagine training a CNC machine to do it for me instead. Of course, if I had to crank them out on a production schedule, that would be a different story. Carving braces too, and bending sides, but they both have a little bit of a pucker factor. I'm always waiting to hear or see that crack, I guess, although I've been pretty lucky. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
As often as not I mold sides rather than bend them. It has its own little dance and pitfalls to be overcome.I enjoy all facets of building musical instruments, but not all the time. Sometimes I'm in the mood to rough out parts and other times detail work is appealing. I guess that is why I have several projects going at once and take months to finish them. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
I have had good luck bending sides lately but I have to admit, it still scares me. Especially when it is a $400 set. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
I love bending as much as I love building jigs. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
No! Not today anyway. I just bent a set of Curly Anigre. It was the most cranky, uncooperative wood I have encountered yet. It wouldn't take shape in a Fox bender and was very uncooperative on the pipe when I was trying to get it to take shape. Some cracks in the waist that I hope I can repair. But yes. You're right. Usually it is very satisfying. |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Mr. Vincent: We've used a number of curly anigre sets over the last decade, and the bending approach that I was directed to use for my own Size 0 (Concert) project is detailed in the three 'Bending Figured Mahogany on the Fox Bender' videos posted on YouTube. The key things I learned with bending my own sides and another set of sides for a Size 00 12 fret grand concert sized guitar with Venetian cutaway was to treat with SuperSoft 2 no less than 12 and no more than 24 hours prior to bending, use moderate water in the kraft paper bending reservoir, start execution of the bend about 60-90 seconds after visible steam develops (this allows the bends to be completed well prior to the last of the water being used), and to finish at about 310-320 degrees Fahrenheit before allowing the side to dry for at a lower temperature (but still 15-20 degrees Fahrenheit above the liquid/vapor transition temperature). Hope this helps - we routinely do tight Venetian cutaways in figured mahogany, ash, and anigre without issues...SuperSoft 2 seems to be the key here, as well as bending early before all the steam is depleted, but keeping the wood dry before steam formation from the wet paper to prevent fiber collapse at the cutaway. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Hey they're Todd Stock videos! Wish I had asked BEFORE I started bending. ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad") Thanks for that Mr Guthrie! 
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
You are very welcome, and Woodie is fine. Good luck with your side bending! |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Thanks Woodie. Not a ton under my belt but #28 is the worst I have encountered. I was looking at it after it came out of the bender and thought, looks like a dreadnought. Now I know why people build dreadnoughts. Shudder. 
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Yes!! Super Soft schedule above is exactly right. Weird, recently bent some Monkeypod the same way, but it wouldn't take the shape till it was "cooked" in. Some woods bend and immediately set, others require "cooking", low and slow. But, Super soft soak is the key. That stuff is magic in a bottle. |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
I've been crawling through the archives here, on Acoustic Guitar Forum, Musical Instrument Maker's Forum, and other sites to update the 'recipes' for bending given in the builder's guide I've been tasked with editing (no charge for tuition here if one does not count the hundreds of hours spent manipulating video cameras, editing text, managing the Google Docs cue, etc.). Really interesting information on the peculiarities of various woods, and so many different approaches! A few weeks ago, my first solo bending experience (with 'solo' meaning the boss was with a customer and not perched on the big bench watching my every move), I got a bit distracted and let the stack heat too long and ended up running through the water before the bend. The curly mahogany 12 fret dreadnought side came out the next morning almost flat...when I loosened the waist and pulled the upper and lower bout cauls off, the side tried to jump off the form! I ended up SuperSofting (be tolerant, Word Police!) the side and ironing it flat for rebending. Even after it came out of the bender the second time, the side required a little work on the pipe to get a perfect fit; it's mate required no such special treatment...so a good lesson for me to avoid getting involved in firearms-related discussions whilst engaged in critical operations! In contrast, another luthier guesting in the shop and working on the 12 fret dreadnought pair took a set of Brazilian rosewood sides which had been discarded by one of the factories a few decades ago for a serious dip near the waist, ironed it flat, and re-bent without issue...out of the bender as soon as it was cool enough to handle and zero spring-back! This certainly suggests one good reason for Martin using so much rosewood over the years - the chance of breaking a side is nil! |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Cocobolo bends like that. Maybe it's the high resin and oil content. Maybe that acts as a hardener |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Bad time to ask me as well. I had been saving a very special set of brazilian rosewood for 15 years and it just wouldn't bend-cracked! Bought another set of sides for $400. and they had many splits so I couldn't use that one either. Oh well $800 (conservatively) worth of wood down the drain. Remember: Guitar building is not for the faint of heart! |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Wow. Sorry for ur bad luck. Really |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
"Oh well $800 (conservatively) worth of wood down the drain." Ouch!! By molding veneer I can keep my costs for "all BRW" back and side sets under $100. As "double sides" gain greater acceptance, hopefully laminated backs will too. But even using laminated sides, which have gained some acceptance, could net a pretty good savings and avoid some heartbreak from the bending iron. As an amateur I have the luxury of not answering to the marketplace, so the choice is easy for me. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
I'm knocking on wood as I say this, but using my new binding machine, kind of fashioned after the new LMI model, hasn't resulted in one broken side.
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Joe Beaver wrote: I'm knocking on wood as I say this, but using my new binding machine, kind of fashioned after the new LMI model, hasn't resulted in one broken side. Believe me, after building over 100 instruments I have found out that some wood just wont bend, just a matter of time and luck till that piece finds you or you find that piece. It's not like I could even say there is a particular species, that's why they call it wood. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending wood is fun, no? |
Brad, Is that as in 'some wood bend and some wood not'? |
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