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| Ebony on CITES list? http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47214 |
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| Author: | MaxBishop [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ebony on CITES list? |
I didn't want to hijack Bob C's thread, but I wonder if anyone has information as to the addition of Ebony to the CITES list? If it is true, does it apply to all types and species of Ebony? How will it affect the purchase of Ebony and the inclusion of it in instruments for sale? Thanks, Max |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
I went and checked after reading in that thread, but the only one I could find is the Madagascar species, which have been on there for a while. African is still ok, as far as I know. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
Well, that might have been an assumption on my part. I usually had 2-3 suppliers of ebony in my region. (Ottawa). Two weeks ago, I started looking around for some ebony for fingerboards. My first go to guy said he hadn't gotten any in a long while and when he started calling around for me, he was told that they couldn't get it anymore. I called/checked with two other big exotic suppliers and the answer was always the same. No more ebony to be had. A friend of mine scored some from some source I didn't usually use. Then my first guy called back. He said he reached one of his suppliers and this guy had 2 boards only. That was it. He had to buy at least one. 180'' long by 5''. 125$ bd/ft. And I, in turn, had to buy at least half of it. But you're right, I just checked the CITES site and there's just Mac Ebony that's listed on there. So I guess my bleeding wallet made me jump the gun and claim ebony was on CITES. My bad. Regardless, we're getting fleeced up here buying it. |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
I checked the USA government site and I think that some of the countries have self imposed temporary bans to slow down the harvests. |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
Alain Desforges wrote: ... But you're right, I just checked the CITES site and there's just Mac Ebony that's listed on there. So I guess my bleeding wallet made me jump the gun and claim ebony was on CITES. My bad. Regardless, we're getting fleeced up here buying it. Just a note to clarify, but Macassar ebony is still OK, it's Madagascan ebonies that are on the CITES list. And as an aside the Canadian dollar has really tanked... I guess your currency is tied to oil prices which have fallen off a cliff over the past couple of years. My Canadian customers have pretty much all been priced out of the woods I sell, plus the USPS just raised international postage rates 25-50% making things even more expensive. It's a rough time to be a Canadian who needs exotic wood right now. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
Of course you folks realize that Bob Taylor now owns the rights to all the African Ebony, right? |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
My understanding is that Taylor, along with one of the German wood suppliers, bought the mill cutting ebony in the last part of Africa that allows it to be logged legally. One of the first things he did was relax the grading standard that had been used in buying logs: they will now by the 19 out of 20 that have some lighter streaking in them. This should extent the supply quite a lot, at the cost of having some fingerboards that are streaked instead of pure black. As far as I can see, this is a good thing. What Taylor is doing seems to be good business, and good for the future of ebony, and I don't see why people are imputing evil motives. |
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
The assumption is that no one but Taylor guitars will have access to ebony, making ebony fittings a Taylor only feature. For people who MUST HAVE EBONY on their guitars, this is a bitter pill to swallow. Hence the "evil intent". It is probably a shrewd move by Bob Taylor. Whether it is good for the survival of the species, or more importantly for the critical habitats this species supports/needs is hard to tell. It may also backfire. If the other big prestige builders can't have access to ebony, they will probably spin that THE wood for fingerboards and bridges is tulip wood. Soon that may be what everyone MUST have tulip wood. We will all be dyeing our fingerboards a sickly yellow/green and Bob Taylor will be stuck with a mill he paid millions for that mills a brittle, hard to mill, super dense wood with no green streaks at all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
| Author: | sdsollod [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
Personally, I happen to like the streaks of lighter color. To me, it's more interesting... |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
Quote: I don't see why people are imputing evil motives. Bob Taylor has been telling other guitar companies that they must buy African ebony from Taylor, but that is not the case. There are other legal sources that are harvesting ebony responsibly. The arrogance is what rubs some people the wrong way. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
Indeed, Taylor and his business partner have bought the biggest ebony harvesting mill in Africa. How many such mills there are, I don't know. Whatever his intent, ebony has taken a 40-50% hike in price, and it's very scarce, at least around here. I too prefer a bit of streaking in my ebony. It's much more interesting that way. I'm very curious to try out that new man made ebony product. Although it does seem priced close to the real thing. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
My point was not to imply any evil motivation, but to remind us that Bob was planning action to protect the species in whatever way was possible, not just harvest the stuff. Bob's reputation as a high-ethics individual is not in question in my mind. I think that like any other endangered species, we must do what is necessary to help save the species and promote its revitalization. |
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| Author: | bftobin [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
I was fortunate to pick up 50 nice ebony bridge blanks from West Pen for $120.00 US just before the CDN dollar tanked. Most were very black and some were streaked, but over all, a really good deal. I believe the sale is still on for those interested. Also on fingerboards IIRC. Brent |
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| Author: | whiskywill [ Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
Alan Carruth wrote: My understanding is that Taylor, along with one of the German wood suppliers, bought the mill cutting ebony in the last part of Africa that allows it to be logged legally. One of the first things he did was relax the grading standard that had been used in buying logs: they will now by the 19 out of 20 that have some lighter streaking in them. This should extent the supply quite a lot, at the cost of having some fingerboards that are streaked instead of pure black. As far as I can see, this is a good thing. What Taylor is doing seems to be good business, and good for the future of ebony, and I don't see why people are imputing evil motives. Is this what you were referring to? Madinter is a Spanish, not German, company and they currently sell 1st quality ebony fretboards for $7.60. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebony on CITES list? |
Indian ebony has been the go-to for a lot of suppliers for years now, rather than African, and I believe it's harvested responsibly under the watch of the Indian government. I have a few hundred I got from a Gibson job, which'll be enough for all the guitars I'll ever build; a few of them are even flamed! There are lots of direct suppliers for Indian ebony if you're buying production quantities. |
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