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Bracing critique wanted
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47406		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  GRS [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Bracing critique wanted
I was hoping to get some feedback on the bracing on my third guitar. I’ve got the feeling that its overbraced.

It’s a slope shouldered dread with a 25” scale length,
Soundboard is approximately 3/32” thick
X-Brace - 5/16" wide, middle of the brace is 11/16” high, upper legs taper down to 1/8”, lower legs taper down to 1/16”.
Finger braces – upper ones are 1/2” high and the lower finger braces are 7/16” high.
Tonebars – upper is 19/32” (0.594) high, middle is 17/32 (0.53), lower is 1/2”.
(I decided on trying 3 tonebars after I played a Collings CJ35)
The finger braces and tonebars are all 1/4" wide and taper down to 1/16”

Sorry for the poor pictures

Thanks so much!

Gary
Author:  DannyV [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
It would depend on the final destination of the guitar and it's intended use. IMHO the mass in your bracing would not make for what we have come to know as a responsive guitar. There's more than necessary to keep the top from distorting. There can be a place for that. If you were going to be hammering out bluegrass tunes this might be the ticket.

Your photos just loaded. It looks heavily braced. You could at least put a lot more taper in the X and tone bars.

The X grain patches that will sit on either side of the neck block look like a great idea. Never seen that one but I may use it. I've had some issues in that area.

Cheers.
Author:  Greg B [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
If the top is really 3/32" (.094"), the relatively sturdy bracing is appropriate. A more precise measurement than about 3/32 would be useful.

IME a thin top and beefy bracing has a particular sound that's different than thicker top and lighter bracing. Not better or worse, just different.
Author:  GRS [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
Thanks for the input! It's appreciated!!

Yep I sorta thought that it might still be too heavily braced!

Danny, I'm not looking for a bluegrass guitar....just a strummer...so do you think both the upper and lower legs of the x-brace should be whittled down some more or just the lower legs? BTW there is a tongue on the top of the neck block slots in tight between the cross grain patches and butts up against the UTB....but the cross patches came about because of necessity since I managed to put a little crack in the top so I wanted to shore things up a bit.

Greg, I don't have working calipers but as near as I can measure at the edge with a ruler the top is a hair over 2.5mm. Maybe my conversion to inches was incorrect. The unbraced Sitka top seemed very stiff....so maybe a bit more carving is required even though the top is thin?

Thanks again and have a great day!

Gary
Author:  JSDenvir [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
Gary, you can probably afford to take some off the sides of all the braces. The height is where you get your strength. As you do it, tap the top. The pitch should drop gradually, and it should ring longer.

Of course, then the big problem is deciding where to stop. I'll let you know once I figure that one out:-)

Steve
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
It does depend on what you're trying to accomplish, coupled with the materials you are using. If the top is very stiff (which I'm hoping is the case with a 0.094" thickness), but given a 25" scale length I'd say that's some pretty stiff looking bracing. I'd loose the bottom "tone bar" and remove a bunch off the sides of all the braces. Typically you can go 1/4" wide on all braces below the sound hole. Also 11/16" tall is also very tall. I tend to hover between 1/2" and 9/16" tall at the intersection.

For comparison, here's a picture of my latest which I still feel is pretty tight, mind you I'm looking to gain some mid to high end frequencies.

Attachment:
10636148_10154025358718783_7794556196082314747_n.jpg
Author:  violinvic [ Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
Measure everything and keep detailed notes. You really won't.know for sure until you string it up and play it. My first few were probably too heavily braced. I am no expert, for sure, but experience and good advice, as found here, will help in the long run.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
Pretty beefy but like others said with a .094-0.100 top on a dred and 1/4" tone bars it might be just the ticket for a strummer and could be a great recording guitar. I'd consider moving the taper on the ends of the X inboard a little, tap it a bit so you know what it sounds like and finish the build and see how it sounds. Use that info for the next build ad infinitum.

You can voice the closed box by thinning the edges of the lower bout but you are so thin already that might not be a good idea, at least not very aggressively. You could probably go to 0.090 or so after the top is on but before binding.

Might consider a lighter bridge--like Rosewood vs Ebony.

Let us know how you like it when you are finished.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
Rod True wrote:
For comparison, here's a picture of my latest...

Rod, I like your novel! Lol
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
pat macaluso wrote:
Rod True wrote:
For comparison, here's a picture of my latest...

Rod, I like your novel! Lol


HaHA! Thanks Pat. This guitar is for a very special young man I've been friends with for the past 16 years. I've seen him graduate high school, meet and court his wife, see and held his first two children and have watched him become a fine upright young man! It's been a great honour to be his friend and I just wanted to write some special stuff on the inside of his guitar. :D
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
That's great that you had a chance to make him a guitar. I'm sure he will be happy and may that guitar bless many generations!
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bracing critique wanted
[:Y:] Rod! [:Y:]

Alex
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