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 Post subject: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:47 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1700
I’m not sure what to call these things so I’ll just deem them advanced pickups. What I’m talking about is the onboard effects systems like in the Yamaha acoustisonic guitars. It’s like a tonewoods amp ( the thing I hate that snaps to the back of your guitar) that creates unplugged effects.

Has anyone installed one of these on your built guitars?

Any kind of experience here?
Thanks so much
B


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:40 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:00 pm
Posts: 980
First name: Josh
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I haven’t and if someone requested one on a commissioned build I would say no :D

No judgement, it’s just that adding a dinky chorus effect to a fine acoustic guitar attracts me about as much as the notion of running a Strad violin through a Boss DS-1 pedal.


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:16 pm 
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Koa
Koa

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Posts: 1700
joshnothing wrote:
I haven’t and if someone requested one on a commissioned build I would say no :D

No judgement, it’s just that adding a dinky chorus effect to a fine acoustic guitar attracts me about as much as the notion of running a Strad violin through a Boss DS-1 pedal.

I gotta say it’s a lot of fun:) I have 2 Yamaha acoustisonics :)


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:35 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12971
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
When the Tone wood amp came out I installed maybe three of them this was immediately after they started the heavy advertising. They seem to not be as popular anymore I have not installed one in a year or so now.

I was not impressed nor would I ever want one of these things in a guitar that I crafted and went to great lengths to keep the mass down. The thing uses rare earth magnets which not only makes it very heavy all that weight is added to the guitar I have yet to hear anyone suggest that people with pacemakers might be in real trouble with rare earth magnets pressed against their bodies near their chests.

So strike two for me with the great mass and the danger of the magnets in close proximity with one's body.

How did it sound? Exactly as good or bad as that specific guitar was capable of reproducing with it's box while with the extra mass that the back of the guitar is now strapped with.

So your question was more in general and not specific to the so-called tone wood amp. On-board electronics that come from the manufacturer are one of the biggest reasons why people's guitars fail and they bring them to us and others for repair. The electronics are often crap, cheap and do not last very long. Some well known manufacturers have had to redesign and replace entire systems that failed in time.

These are often, usually proprietary systems where the repair centers either can't get parts or are unwilling to lose a bunch of money changing hats and going into the warranty repair business for a one-off and securing original parts.

When I built my Heshtones AND when I finally recognized that I was wrong and I may indeed be selling to others my North Star were heirloom instruments. I felt that Martin build quality was not difficult for a good builder to achieve and even surpass and as such we should be building 100 year guitars.

Today's guitar electronics will never go the distance and in many cases on-board systems are the first thing to fail on a guitar equipped with them.

So as for me and this is now opinion I personally think that these capabilities and systems are incompatible with hand-made, one-at-a-time, Luthier built instruments and the value proposition that we put forward. OTOH the person who jumps in may have a built-in market that is currently unaddressed but God help you 8 years out when these things fail and you can't get parts.

There is a reason why Martin and others only warranty the electronics on their products for one year.......

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:15 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:42 pm
Posts: 682
Location: United States
First name: Tom
Last Name: Rein
City: Saline
State: Michigan
Focus: Build
I have to agree with Hesh on all accounts. I have not looked at external effects for acoustic guitars but it would seem you could easily add chorus, etc., with pedals. 100% reversibility is 100% required with acoustic guitar pickups, IMO. The next "latest and greatest" pickup is always just around the bend.
Here's a somewhat related anecdote: back in my big guitar store repair days a wealthy player insisted on having a "barn door" type preamp installed in the side of his Goodall. Try as I might he could not be dissuaded. It was a sickening feeling to mangle a high-end guitar like that but he was going to have one installed come hell or high water. At least I did a proper job and added the necessary reinforcements. As an employee I was bound by the guitar store's credo of the customer is always right.

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Last edited by TRein on Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.


These users thanked the author TRein for the post: Hesh (Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:52 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:40 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4839
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Put me with Hesh
Many pic ups are over kill
On an acoustic you don't need that much . My preference is the ultra K&K or the Trinity system.
This gives you bass mid and treble along with phase. Most mixer boards have effects on them and to
be honest I thought that would be cool on an acoustic . It wasn't To my ear I want a natural sounding guitar.
Keep it simple.
I just got a bose system WOW it was an older one but there is more there than I need

HAPPY NEW YEAR
lets all be better people this year

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These users thanked the author bluescreek for the post (total 3): joshnothing (Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:14 am) • Michaeldc (Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:01 pm) • Hesh (Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:57 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:09 pm 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
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First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Still a big fan of Ken Donnell's Mini-Flex or 2Mic systems of lavalier mikes inside the guitar. Natural acoustic sound, with a minimum of work to install.

Also, per Hesh's statement that we should be building 100 year guitars... PREACH IT!

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These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Hesh (Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:13 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:01 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
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First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
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I think something like this should be filed under "personal preference". Two of my clients use them to great effect. One has worked for quite a long time to achieve a very unique sound. And, I have one and like it. One person I know did not stick the internal feet. Which is fine if the guitar case can accommodate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:08 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1700
Mike OMelia wrote:
I think something like this should be filed under "personal preference". Two of my clients use them to great effect. One has worked for quite a long time to achieve a very unique sound. And, I have one and like it. One person I know did not stick the internal feet. Which is fine if the guitar case can accommodate it.

To be clear I’m talking about instruments that have this built in. I’ve had a tonewood amp and I didn’t dig it just because it was a big clunky thing hanging on the back. What I’m referring to are systems like the acoustisonic Yamahas


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:01 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6977
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
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Status: Semi-pro
SnowManSnow wrote:
Mike OMelia wrote:
I think something like this should be filed under "personal preference". Two of my clients use them to great effect. One has worked for quite a long time to achieve a very unique sound. And, I have one and like it. One person I know did not stick the internal feet. Which is fine if the guitar case can accommodate it.

To be clear I’m talking about instruments that have this built in. I’ve had a tonewood amp and I didn’t dig it just because it was a big clunky thing hanging on the back. What I’m referring to are systems like the acoustisonic Yamahas


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My apologies. But I think I was (albeit off topic) responding to other's posts. Point taken.


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced pickups
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:58 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1700
Mike OMelia wrote:
SnowManSnow wrote:
Mike OMelia wrote:
I think something like this should be filed under "personal preference". Two of my clients use them to great effect. One has worked for quite a long time to achieve a very unique sound. And, I have one and like it. One person I know did not stick the internal feet. Which is fine if the guitar case can accommodate it.

To be clear I’m talking about instruments that have this built in. I’ve had a tonewood amp and I didn’t dig it just because it was a big clunky thing hanging on the back. What I’m referring to are systems like the acoustisonic Yamahas


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My apologies. But I think I was (albeit off topic) responding to other's posts. Point taken.

Nah all good.
:) I I didn’t read well enough to know what you were responding to I suppose:)


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