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Ding filler for spruce?
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47946		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Ding filler for spruce?
If, say, one inadvertently pokes a small, but pointy hole in a finished guitar, leaving a small, but quite visible poke mark, what would be the best way to fill such a thing to make it less visible?
Author:  jfmckenna [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Did one try steaming it first?
Author:  Ken Lewis [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Hmmm, pointy hole, sounds like the grain is cut or fractured. That will require magic to undo:)
Try the steam first. Yah, I know I'm no help. You do know magic, right?
Author:  Colin North [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Steam what you can, shellac to seal and then CA is all I can think.
Apart from that, it's a finish repair after scooping out the damaged area and glue in a matching undamaged piece of spruce.
http://frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/SpruceHole/sprucehole.html
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Steam no help. I was thinking of nail filler...
Author:  Bri [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Nail filler can be made to match near perfect when done, but as the wood ages and changes color, the filler does not. To my eye this looks worse than no repair.
My nickels worth.
Try leaving a damp rag on the injury overnight. Sometimes it will swell enough to facilitate a decent fix.

B
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
The easiest fix might be to do nothing, but offer a discount. Everyone loves a bargain (myself included). The first Spanish guitar I bought had a $100 price drop because of a small ding in the top. After the first week I didn't notice it, and after a couple of years it had a few more small dings.
Depending on the location you may be able to make an inconspicuous repair. Any pictures?
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
A small inlay of abalone...................and an up charge of ???

Tom
Author:  kencierp [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
I would not recommend steam or water -- that could damage the finish and be the dawn of a much bigger problem.

For dings/dents in Nitro finish I a use a clear gel made by spilling some of the top coat material ( pretty sure it works with most finish chemicals) on a piece of glass let it dry until its a thick gel consistency, fill the dent let dry scrap and polish -- yes it will take several applications over a period of time.

At one time LMII sold a gel product that worked just like this DIY version.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
The problem is that the dent is actually in the spruce, a small, sharp edged hole from lightly stabbing it with an Ebony dust covered needle file. Filling it with clear finish will just top up a dark hole. M looking for something wood coloured. I suspect I may wind up hitting it with nail filler.
Author:  kencierp [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
I remember seeing a colored puddy made guitar dents called "second chance"
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
http://www.lmii.com/products/finishing/ ... ent-filler

Aha, thanks!
Author:  Haans [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Ih brother...
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Your suggestion?
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
If the dent is tiny you could drill a small circular hole and put a spruce patch in with HHG (matching the grain). It would at least color up the same with age where putty will not.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
If the problem is Ebony dust making the hole look black hitting it with compressed air could blow it out.

You also might be able to free it up a little with a fine 25-20G needle and blow it out. Then a clear fill could help.

Pictures?
Author:  Haans [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Drop fill with clear. It's the least invasive repair.
Let dry for a long time before leveling...
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
I'm wondering if deionized distilled water would help with getting the ebony dust out of the ding?
Author:  Imbler [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
meddlingfool wrote:
http://www.lmii.com/products/finishing/filler/second-chance-dent-filler

Aha, thanks!


I used that on my first guitar, and although it will fill a scratch or a dent, it appeared to be latex paint. It might not be, but that gives you an idea of the consistency and what it would look like. It would cover up the ebony dust if you can't get it out. I haven't used it since the first guitar,
Mike
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Once or twice, in a long career of such calamities, I've gotten lucky with a tiny side-grain spruce patch. Make it eye-shaped, with the points going along the grain. If you saved the soundhole doughnut you've got a source of patch material that will match. Glue it is with hide glue: epoxy or CA don't shrink as they set and will leave a dark glue line. This is, of course, SO much easier before you put on the finish.

I used to think it was impossible to hide such things under a few thousandths of an inch of clear finish. Then I got a student who was a study in ADHD: he made a really fancy instrument but had trouble taking the time to do it right. He was, however, already an expert in lacquer finishing, and put on the finest coating I've ever seen, using rattle cans. The mistakes were still there, and visible, but it was hard to get past that surface. So there's hope... ;)
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Image
It's just a wee little poke. The blackness is not coming out. If I try to fill with clear, it will still look black. It's not even big enough for a piece of wood to fit into , the patch literally has no structural strength when I try it. Hence why I was thinking of some sort of wood coloured filler. Better near wood color than black like that. If I was better friends with my dentist, their UV cavity putty would be perfect...
Author:  kencierp [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
Now that I've seen it I changed my mind -- I would use a pin/needle and put tiny droplets of distilled water in the dent, I think there is a good chance it will puff up back to original level.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
It won't, the fibres are crushed, I've tried.

I ended up making a teeny tiny upside down pyramid and squishing it down with Titebond. We'll see how it looks tomorrow...
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
When damage is too small to patch, make it bigger. Find a scrap with matching grain, cut a patch that is shaped so that it will blend in the best, and then enlarge the damaged area to fit the patch.

Alex
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ding filler for spruce?
I use different colored oil-based enamel paints mixed together to match various woods, for covering certain defects. Then a tiny artist's brush to apply it. Sometimes it works very well. If it doesn't match, I just wipe it off with mineral spirits and try again with a different mix. You can go back and apply grain lines or pores if necessary. Sometimes you can't find the repaired area, but it almost always looks better than the original defect. And it definitely looks better than wood putty which never matches well.
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