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Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
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Author:  printer2 [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
I seem to recall reading that the hide glue will hold under heat but I am wondering if there is greater chance for it to delaminate because it is a fiber to wood joint? I would like to glue the fiber on either edge of the sides before bending. Then trim off enough for binding and use the edge from one side to use on the other side.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
I have never used hot hide glue but I have used the premixed stuff. I have also heard that HHG doesn't release until it is high temp but there is plenty of conflicting data that shows HHG releases at around 150 degrees F. It turns out the premixed stuff tests a little high in straight and release temp.

What is better for gluing purfling to binding before bending? There are many opinions out there but for me Titebond Extend Wood Glue (higher release temp than TB original or HHG), or CA. Neither are perfect but then ours is an un-perfect world.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
I've glued with Tightbond extend and Tightbond 3 and had no issues with bending in the machine with moist brown paper. I'd worry about hide especially with moisture but I've never tried it.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
I asked this same question a while back. As recommended I used tite bond 3 before sending to bender. Worked as advertised. Zero delamination during bending.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
I'm confused as to what you are trying to accomplish?

You want to add purfling to the sides, bend, and the attempt to cut bindings off the bent side?
Author:  ChuckH [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Meddling, I think he's fixin' to glut two sticks o purfling to one stick of binding and cut ........well, I don't know either.


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Author:  Joe Beaver [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
I could be wrong but I think he wants to glue the side purfling on the bottom of the binding then bend it as a unit. (that is how I do it also)

As I understand his question he wounders if HHG is good for that.
Author:  guitarjtb [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Let me recap:
"I have never used hot hide glue"
"..but I've never tried it."
"I asked this same question a while back."
"I'm confused as to what you are trying to accomplish?"
".......well, I don't know either."
"As I understand his question he wounders if HHG is good for that."

I guess I'll add; "Sorry, but I have never used HHG for this purpose."

Just kidding guys.:>)
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Quote:
I would like to glue the fiber on either edge of the sides before bending. Then trim off enough for binding and use the edge from one side to use on the other side.

I think it's gluing fiber purfling to either edge of both the guitar ribs, then removing a binding strip/purfling off the 2 edges of each of the ribs.
These binding strips are then to be used for the binding on the opposite rib - ?
Author:  Woodie G [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
We use thin CA and sand to final bending thickness afterwards. it seems to keep a good grip on the binding. Titebond III as mentioned does a nice job as well. Heat and moisture are the recipe for release on hot hide glue, but we have not tried that approach,, so no first-hand knowledge.

We sandwich the purfling sides of the binding together and tape with Blue 3M painters tape to prevent the fiber from buckling in tight bends.

Both the potential for fiber buckling on a free edge and the difficulty of cutting binding width strips free of the side after bending suggest an alternative: trim the binding strips free of the side prior to final thicknessing, label in pencil on the edge to maintain orientation, apply the purflings to the binding, thickness everything, then bend side and the separate binding package together...the 6" width of the bending blanket should provide enough room. It might be worth while to carefully mark where the waist will sit and to align to this mark on both side and binding. This is our usual approach when we are binding with strips that are not too much thinner than the sides.
Author:  James Orr [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Woodie G wrote:
We use thin CA and sand to final bending thickness afterwards. it seems to keep a good grip on the binding. Titebond III as mentioned does a nice job as well.


+1 to the CA. Glued some up the other day and bending it this morning, in fact.
Author:  Tim L [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
I've always used Titebond III for the purfling binding stack. Why? Because it will hold up to the moisture and heat, but mainly because that is the way I was shown to do it. Mainly using hide glue for everything else I will say I have no desire to try it to attach purfling to the binding before bending.
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Because of the heat/moisture release potential with HHG I would not try this myself.

I've used both CA and Titebond III and I prefer the TB3. Bending the stack after using CA releases nasty CA fumes that I just don't care for. No such issue with TB3 and no delaminations from either.


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Author:  DennisK [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Hide glue certainly works with wood side purflings, and I don't see why it wouldn't work with fiber as well. You can even glue it on hammer veneer style, rather than trying to figure some way to clamp it. Run glue along a few inches of the binding, and rub the purfling onto it with your thumbs for 10-20 seconds, add a few more inches of glue, rub some more, repeat until done. Holds up amazingly well under heat and moisture for bending.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
My only experience was with the 7 guitars on my bench right now. My purfling was .6 mm natural maple glued to bottom of binding strips, about 0.08" wide. TB3. Not a single one of them delaminated. The last time I did this was with TB Orig, and delamination was a big problem.
Author:  printer2 [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Thanks everyone for all your posts. Read and considered them all and... ...in my impulsive nature I glued the fiber onto the sides just after I posted. Then I though while reading the posts, you do loosen a neck joint with heat and steam. Darn.

So then I weighed my options. cut the strips off now and bundle then up together with the fiber sides facing each other, taping them together and bending them as a unit. Leaving them on the sides, wrap the ends with the fiber with taped and bend away, remove them now and redo the joint with another glue. Sometimes I hate my impulsive side.
Author:  ernie [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Hi Fred in winterpeg I/ve used fish glue to do this job but I use low heat 150 deg F .on my watlow blanket heater. Fish glue can be purchased from lee valley but T3 is probably available at your local big box hdware strore
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purfling On Binding With Hide Glue Before Bending?
Elmer's wood glue MAX is essentially the same as TB3 so you have a few options if need be.
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