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Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48201		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  George L [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
Just cleaned up a body after installing bindings and purflings. First time using fish glue for this process and everything came out perfectly tight, save for one small gap right at the waist. gaah

I've read where folks have reactivated protein glues with a little moisture and heat, then reclamped. I've never done this and am wondering if that might work in this situation. If so, how would you go about it? I can always rout it off and redo that side, but ... well ... it sure would be nice if I could just snug things up in that area and keep moving forward.

Your thoughts and tips appreciated.

Thanks!
Author:  DennisK [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
Don't do it, unless you're planning for a sunburst finish. It does work (leave a wet paper towel on it for a half an hour or so, then heat and clamp), but fish glue wicks into the endgrain of softwood and causes an odd discoloration. Hide glue doesn't do this, so reactivating is fine with it. But of course getting the bindings glued with HHG in the first place is more difficult, since it's trying to gel up on you the whole time.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
DennisK wrote:
Don't do it, unless you're planning for a sunburst finish. It does work (leave a wet paper towel on it for a half an hour or so, then heat and clamp), but fish glue wicks into the endgrain of softwood and causes an odd discoloration. Hide glue doesn't do this, so reactivating is fine with it. But of course getting the bindings glued with HHG in the first place is more difficult, since it's trying to gel up on you the whole time.


That's good to know. Thanks Dennis.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
What would happen if you heated it without moisture? We use Titebond and have to do this from time to time.

A test on scrap would be easy.
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
Yes, fish glue will discolor your top. But if you sealed the top and channels with shellac, you can definitely reactivate the glue and reclamp. I have done it successfully without any discoloration many times.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
I had same issue, used fish glue for bindings/purfling (I used wide purfs too as 1920's Stella type guitar). What I did, and it worked perfectly. I wicked a little Nail polish remover, which softened the glue. I then took a clamp, and clamped tight - no issues, no stains.
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Glenn
Author:  George L [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
Thanks for the replies! This is exactly what I was hoping to find.

Chris - I did indeed seal the channels with shellac before the original installation. If you have time, I'd be interested in knowing the process you've used successfully.

Glenn - You wicked fingernail polish (acetone) in the gap? I did not know fish glue could be reactivated that way.

Thanks again for all the responses.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
The problem with a gap at the waist is that the binding needs to be a bit longer to close it up. Most pieces of wood will stretch enough to close the gap, but some will shrink back and reopen the gap.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
George L wrote:

Glenn - You wicked fingernail polish (acetone) in the gap? I did not know fish glue could be reactivated that way.

.


Well, went back to my notes. I typically use Fish glue for all bindings... however, because this was the first time I used plastic bindings, I used Duco for this - sorry! Worked great on the duco ;-)

Glenn
Author:  George L [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
Glenn - Got it. Thanks for the follow-up!

Rodger -Yeah, I'm concerned about that. I think I may experiment a bit with this, but I'm not convinced I will have success.

Thanks again,
Author:  George L [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
I was in doubt, so I routed it out. :)

Thanks for the replies!
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
I don't know what to say.

Seems to me any perceived advantages of using fish glue are completely outweighed by having to resort to routing off the binding as a means of correction. Most of our bindings are bookmatched, 'these and these only' pieces of wood.
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
I don't know what to say either.

I didn't know fish glue would stick to shellac. But if you had a shellac seal, then why rout instead of reactivating?

Fish glue seems like an ideal choice for binding aside from the wicking issue. So if it can be reliably eliminated, I may give it another try. One of the things i really like about fish and hide glue as opposed to titebond is that they can be cleaned up with water even after drying. I shellac everything before cutting the binding channels, so I can slop water all over it to get the squeeze-out residue off after everything's dry and all the tape is out of the way. Very convenient.
Author:  George L [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
Bottom line is that I didn't want to take the chance of staining the top. Perhaps the shellac would have prevented that from happening, but I wasn't positive. Since I'm confident in my ability to rout clean channels, and because I have a small stack of virtually identical binding pieces at the ready, I thought this was the most expedient path.

This is my first time using fish glue on bindings and I like it. I don't blame the gap on the glue. I plan to use it again.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glue Help - Reactivate/Reclamp?
I started using fish on bindings also & I like it, although I've only done a couple. I wasn't aware that some people were having staining problems until more recently. I wonder how common this is? Maybe time for a new thread!
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