Fish glue is actually the very "same formula" as Le-Pages' Original glue -- I re-call that visible seams and staining was a problem/complaint about the product way back when, so along comes white PVA.
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| How many are having staining problems with fish glue? How ma http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48212 |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | How many are having staining problems with fish glue? How ma |
I started using fish glue on bindings & I like it, (long open time) although I've only done a couple. I wasn't aware that some people were having staining problems (in soundboards) until more recently. I wonder how common this is? And why it doesn't happen all the time like CA would. I am aware that some are sealing the channels with shellac first, like you would with CA which is easy enough, but I am wondering if it is absolutely necessary. Thanks! |
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| Author: | ernie [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
Romanillos advises against using fish for gluing soundboards , on Spruce, he uses hide glue. I use fish for inlays, binding, bracing, laminating bindings etc. I use t1 for gluing up tops or elmers white glue long open time and cheap .I would only use fish to glue cedar tops as the brown line will not show |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
Fish glue is actually the very "same formula" as Le-Pages' Original glue -- I re-call that visible seams and staining was a problem/complaint about the product way back when, so along comes white PVA.
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| Author: | kwerry [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
Never had an issue used it for binding, end wedges and other stuff.. Kerry |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
It only wicks into the endgrain of softwoods when you moisturize and heat it to squeeze out binding gaps. On the initial application, it's viscous enough that it doesn't penetrate. I haven't done tests to find the exact conditions that cause the problem. It's possible that heating it is all it takes, but it may also need to be watered down more than it is fresh from the bottle. Or it's possible that watering it down would make it thin enough to penetrate even without heat, but I doubt it. |
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| Author: | George L [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
As noted in the thread that prompted this one, I used fish glue to affix the bindings and purflings on my current guitar. This is with a western red cedar top and I did not have any staining. I'd read some reports of staining issues, so I first sealed the binding channels with shellac. I don't know that it is/was necessary, but it seemed a simple and prudent cautionary measure. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
never had a problem |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
I did not mean gluing the soundboard together, but the exposed end grain when doing top bindings and Rosette. Dennis, that's interesting. Maybe it's just the heat that does it. Has anybody had any end grain staining when fish glue was not heated? |
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| Author: | Toonces [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
I used fish glue for binding/purfling once and got staining in one localized area of the lower bout - the fish glue sunk in bout 1/8" and made the grain turn gray and dull. I did not seal the channel with shellac first. I recommend using Titebond Original. It works well and gives plenty of time to get things in place before setting. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
I use it for insetting rosettes, and it definitely will stain Spruce at the end grain. Sealing the end grain with a wash coat of shellac stops it, and does not interfere with the gluing. |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
We have not seen any issues with fish on binding over the last 9 years, but we've also not had to re-close a binding joint on any new construction. With a shellac seal coat on spruce and cedar end grain, we have not seen any staining using any adhesive, including super thin CA, so it seems like you might be fine reheating and closing the joint, although one of the first things I got to do here was bend, trim, glue, and then rout off binding (and repeat) on a practice body. Also - are you certain the section of binding is long enough to allow the joint to be closed? If the section of binding is in the waist or cutaway, there might not be enough available length to allow the binding to seat properly. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
I'm with John Hall; Never had a problem. also many woodworkers use to much glue. Do not coat both pieces being glued. Put glue on one side of the joint & rub the two pieces together to distribute the glue. That just adds extra moisture & the extra glue need a place to go. Maybe causing staining. Mike |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
Sure, there were problems, but at $.19 how can you go wrong? |
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| Author: | George L [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
Slight hijack here, but I'm curious about the best thickness for fish glue. The bottle I have is from Norland and it is quite thick--noticably more viscous than Titebond. I tested it as-is and also thinned to the consistency of maybe heavy cream and both seemed tough as nails. I liked the way the thinned batch spread, but what thickness do folks here prefer? |
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| Author: | JasonMoe [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
I bought a bottle from Lee Valley around 5 years ago. I've made 6 or 7 guitars with it and have had no problems with anything. I love it. It dries faster and holds faster than it seems like some people say with the open time. Maybe different fish glues are not the same product and have different results. No complaints here. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
I've built around 75 guitars since I started using fish glue. I use it for top/back joints, bracing and prefer it for binding over titebond. Never had an issue with staining. |
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| Author: | Bob Shanklin [ Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
The Lee Valley fish glue is Norlands fish glue, just re-bottled and re-labelled. Bob |
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| Author: | quentinjazz [ Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
Hi, +1 with fish glue staining on spruce, on my last guitar I had problems with the staining around the rosette channels, I won't use it anymore. Aside from that, I had some gluing problems when using fish glue for gluing purflings made of black fiber on wood, the FG doesn't stick well to fiber. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
quentinjazz wrote: Hi, +1 with fish glue staining on spruce, on my last guitar I had problems with the staining around the rosette channels, I won't use it anymore. Aside from that, I had some gluing problems when using fish glue for gluing purflings made of black fiber on wood, the FG doesn't stick well to fiber. Interesting, I've been using b/w/b fiber purfling with FG and never had an issue. Maybe it is only certain brands of the fiber purfling. |
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| Author: | quentinjazz [ Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many are having staining problems with fish glue? Ho |
Josh H wrote: Interesting, I've been using b/w/b fiber purfling with FG and never had an issue. Maybe it is only certain brands of the fiber purfling. Maybe yes. I made purflings with black fiber from Lmii, the fiber you can buy in sheets. Before I used to glue purflings layers directly in the rosette channels Now I glue my purflings together outside the rosette channels and check if everything holds tight. But I won't use fish glue anymore for rosette channels (I had some spruce staining on the last rosette too, around the channels..) |
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