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I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with them?
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Author:  dzsmith [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with them?
I received my SM dread and 000 plans today.
I did not think the paper size would be so big.
I reckon I can cut out the top plate/brace view and glue it to MDF to make a template?
Maybe I should place some paper on it and make a tracing?
I have not even started and already stumped.
Dan
Author:  bcombs510 [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
If you have a printer with a scan / copy function you can copy the top plate view and glue to a piece of acrylic from Home Depot / lowes to make a template. That's what I did with the Antes plan. It worked out pretty good. I also drilled a small hole, 1/16th or so at each brace end point on the template which made it easy to locate the braces (if you are going to brace exactly by the plan).

Word of caution, make sure your copier doesn't pull some "fit scan to page" shenanigans. It's hard to tell when it has only reduced the image 5 or 10%. Ask me how I know this. :D


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Author:  Logan [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
I always have it photocopied by someplace that can do drawings that size, then fold up the original and stash it away somewhere. Cut up the copy to make your jigs/ templates/ etc.
Author:  bcombs510 [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
+1 to Logan's suggestion if they will do it. I tried to take the LMI plan to my local Kinkos and they wouldn't copy it because it had a copyright on it.


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Author:  DennisK [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Those giant papers really are a chore to wrangle :) I'd tape 4 sheets of typing paper together and trace it. Though cutting up the original isn't a crime. Worst case you have to buy another, which usually isn't much more expensive than getting copies made anyway.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Kinkos copies them for me but I always tell them I want the copy to cut up for templates.
Author:  doncaparker [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Johnny, what can you make out of this?

This? Why, I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl...
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Tape it to the window, put another blank sheet on top and trace it for a copy to make a template
Author:  sdsollod [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Office depot never asked me any questions... I cut up the copy, spray it with aerisol glue and stick it to mat board you can get from michael's or other art supply store. You can cut out the templates with an xacto knife. If you'd like you can make more durable templates from the mat board template, but the mat board works pretty well...
Author:  sdsollod [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
BTW - I make sure that the copy is the right scale by checking the measurements on the plan with a ruler before I accept the copy.
Author:  Woodie G [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
I've found the transparent template (body shape, center line, sound hole, braces, bridge plate) we make up for each body shape to be more useful than a plain plantilla, and the plans remain intact - no need to cut them up or make a copy.

For non-cutaway guitars, we make up a half body template (top bracing scribed on one side and back bracing on the other), and for cutaway, a half and a full body template. The half body templates are very handy for layout work, and make creation of a symmetrical full body template much easier.

In terms of process. e new body shape (or revised bracing plan) gets the same treatment:

- Use a sharp awl or scriber and a set of ships curves to trace (really, transfer) the body shape, center line, and bracing plan to a sheet of thin polycarbonate, cut to rough outline with band saw, drum sander, and mill bastard files to the scribed line, then lightly sand the edges to ease the shape edge

- Use that template to lay out the outside mold

- Use that outside mold to make up a bending form

Polycarbonate (Lexan and other trade names) is more expensive than acrylic (Plexiglass), but cut, mills, and threads much more easily than acrylic, and is more durable in shop use. The .095" polycarbonate replacement window glazing material at Home Depot, Lowes, and other home centers is close to ideal for body templates, and an 18" by 24" piece will provide enough material for at least two half-body templates Or a single full body template for a cutaway guitar), as well as enough scrap to get out bridge, head stock, and even a profile view of the neck for those that use a one-piece or vertically laminated neck blank.

An inexpensive ship curve set or a good large French curve will have all of the curves needed to transfer the body outline, and as a bonus, will be very useful for creating head stock, bridge, heel, and a multitude of other pleasingly curvy shapes. Along with a good compass, a 24" rule (one of those cheap aluminum yard sticks works well), and a sharp awl or scriber, the ship curve or French curve will all do double or triple duty in the shop, and speed template and component layout and creation.

https://www.amazon.com/C-Thru-Ship-Curve-Set-6/dp/B000HEOHVC/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1473937576&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=shipcurve

https://www.amazon.com/French-Curve-Drawing-Drafting-Template/dp/B01KMWLJUA/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1473937576&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=shipcurve

Here is a shot from the building guide - both templates have had the scribed lines darkened with a little Magic Marker ink (run the standard Stanford marker along the scribed line, then remove the excess ink from the surface with paper towel and denatured alcohol...some of the ink is left in the scriber cut); we've since taken newer, clearer process shots, but I have not had the time to edit and update that section as of yet. Hope this helps you visualize the process.
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Another vote for Kinkos or any engineering or architect with a large format copier. When you make your copies roll them (face out) so you don't get the little fold lines. I usually put the original away in my office and use the copies - one to cut up for templates, one for the actual construction.

Technically some of these have a copyright but as long as its for your own use there shouldn't be any problems.

btw - if you get your plans in digital form (download from a website) it will usually be in a pdf or dwg format - again, take that on a thumb drive to Kinkos or your engineer and they can plot that.
Author:  dzsmith [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Thanks for the great ideas fellows!
Dan
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
If you're really being picky, your plans are probably off by about 1.4% (edit:should be 0.4%) across the 48" width, the 36" is probably right on. The paper stretches a little after it comes off the roll, mostly in the direction it was rolled. I've done engineering drawings for a while, and it's usually pretty hard to catch unless you've made some reference marks to check. For all practical purposes, it can be neglected.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Rodger Knox wrote:
If you're really being picky, your plans are probably off by about 1.4% across the 48" width, the 36" is probably right on. The paper stretches a little after it comes off the roll, mostly in the direction it was rolled. I've done engineering drawings for a while, and it's usually pretty hard to catch unless you've made some reference marks to check. For all practical purposes, it can be neglected.


Is 1.4% a type-o? That would mean that a scale length of 25.38" could be off by almost 3/8" !?! Not that anyone would pattern the fret placement off a drawing but still, that is a huge amount of error. That could easily make a body 1/4" longer and bridge placement off by quite a lot too. Again, no one should be taking critical dimensions from the drawing alone but I think many people copy the body shape and maybe even neck profile from the drawings. . .
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Body shapes and, for the most part, brace locations and neck shapes are not a big issue. However, use the actual dimensions for anything critical such as the body join to the nut and the body join to the bridge. fret board widths and bridge pin spacing. Since I seem to always be building something a bit different each time I will tape a piece of freezer paper to the bench for each new guitar; it is handy for notes and to keep glue blobs off the bench - but the primary use is so I can draw out the string path from nut to bridge including string spacing and the exact measurements for the fret board and bridge. As long as you get these right everything else can move around a bit.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
I hear you; I mostly bring it up as part of the discussion about using the plans. But I am surprised to find that the stretch is that pronounced. It has been a long time since I used someone else's plans but I wonder how off I have been on body shape. I think I'll go home and measure my old L-00 mold and see if it is longer than I thought.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
I've found it frustrating to shape the plastic. Lately, I make a template from plywood (disk/drum sand) then pattern rout the plastic.
Author:  dzsmith [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Bryan Bear wrote:
I hear you; I mostly bring it up as part of the discussion about using the plans. But I am surprised to find that the stretch is that pronounced. It has been a long time since I used someone else's plans but I wonder how off I have been on body shape. I think I'll go home and measure my old L-00 mold and see if it is longer than I thought.


Yes, I worked as a drafter back in the paper days. Our drawings had a big notice of not using the paper to measure anything.
I figure I'll use the plans for body outline, braces, sound hole, and bridge plate locations. I'll confirm dimensions on the plans. I'll need to convert all fractions to mils. I'm a mil kinda guy.
I'll measure and mark the fret locations, and determine bridge saddle location after neck and fretboard are defined.
Thanks for pointing this out!
Dan

I have the raw lumber except for brace material. I have not found Spruce available locally yet.
I may buy kerfing, or I may make tentallones.
I have Sitka for the top, Genuine Mahogany for back, sides, and neck, and Mesquite for head veneer, fretboard, and possibly bridge. I have not decided if I want to try to make Mesquite binding, but I may use plastic so I can concentrate on form fit and function and dispense with the bling.

I gotta say, you guys are the best and I am blessed to be part of a great group. I just finished this SG.
I give away most of my builds, and to be able to give away some half-decent acoustics would be wonderful.
Once I get started, I'll create a "please help me" thread.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
It would be handy to have a copy of the plans taped to a piece of 1/8" hardboard, Dan. I did that with my singe sheet Parlour plan so that I don't always have to find a clear spot on my bench to reference something. I used Tank Board ( the heavy paper sheets used to protect floors during reno work ) for the four sheets for my OLF SJ plans.

Alex
Author:  sdsollod [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Wow! Nice SG...
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Bryan Bear wrote:
Is 1.4% a type-o? That would mean that a scale length of 25.38" could be off by almost 3/8" !?!


My memory ain't what it used to be, that should be 0.4%, or a little over 1/8" in 36". I use the paper plans as templates, they're close enough for my purposes.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
Rodger Knox wrote:
Bryan Bear wrote:
Is 1.4% a type-o? That would mean that a scale length of 25.38" could be off by almost 3/8" !?!


My memory ain't what it used to be, that should be 0.4%, or a little over 1/8" in 36". I use the paper plans as templates, they're close enough for my purposes.


That sounds closer to what I would have expected. Though that is probably more dangerous for someone who doesn't know better (about not using the drawings for critical measurements). That small of a discrepancy would not be too obvious as to raise a question. . . Until it is too late.
Author:  Colin North [ Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
sdsollod wrote:
Wow! Nice SG...

Exactly what I was going to post when I was this!
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I received my plans today. What the heck do I do with th
bcombs510 wrote:
+1 to Logan's suggestion if they will do it. I tried to take the LMI plan to my local Kinkos and they wouldn't copy it because it had a copyright on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That doesn't make sense - you can always photocopy something you own for your own further use - that's fair usage.

(oops, I see Freeman beat me to that comment)

At our local Kinko/Fedex, the copy machine is right by the back door, you just walk in and copy, and take it to the front counter (at least if they have seen you before).

+1 on the SG
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