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| Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48360 |
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| Author: | Logan [ Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
I'm thinking about purchasing a jointer. I don't have any machines in my shop that will give me a reliable 90 deg edge. I have squared items up in the past with my block plane or no. 4 hand plane and a flat sanding board but I would like to speed up the process. I saw that the Magnum 6" jointer is going to be on sale at KMS tools. Does anyone have any experience with this machine? https://www.kmstools.com/magnum-industrial-6-bench-top-jointer-119808 It looks similar to the Porter-Cable PC160JT. https://www.lowes.ca/jointers-planers/porter-cable-pc160jt-10-amp-6-in-variable-speed-bench-jointer_g1196975.html Are these sufficient for squaring up neck blanks, and bridge blanks or should I hold out for a larger machine? My other option is to buy a nice veritas no. 5 or 6. |
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| Author: | printer2 [ Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
I have a 4" that I find useful, mind you I bought it for $25. |
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| Author: | Bri [ Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
Jordan, there are always good quality older machines, particularily jointers for sale on kijiji or CL cheap. 4" would work for most guitar bits, but for me the infeed and outfeed length would more important. I believe the ideal is table length larger than the stock you wish to true. In other words, half the board would be on the out feed table at the finish of the cut. This becomes more critical with longer and heavier stock.. |
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| Author: | Cal Maier [ Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
Hi Jordan, I just purchased the Magnum bench top unit you are referring to. I've just finished squaring up the stock and making a couple of neck blanks for two builds I'm working on right now. I must say I'm impressed with the performance of this compact machine. My older 6 inch unit gave out and had me searching for a replacement. Although I'm sure there are used jointers in good condition out there for cheap I couldn't track anything down at this time, the units I looked at in my price range under $500. Were heavily used and abused. The Magnum is a rebranded General International model and it differs from the PC model by quite a bit. The PC has 2 traditional jointer blades where the Magnum has a helical cutter with 12 individual blades, it doesn't require any special tools or jigs to set the blades up and the tables are both adjustable. The tables are 30" in length so it has a smaller footprint than my old unit but because I normally cut my stock to the size I will be using before dimensioning and squaring it seems sufficient for my needs. I am very impressed with the unit so far, the finish of the jointed edges are very smooth and it cuts square and true so far so good. Cal |
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| Author: | Lavrov Guitars [ Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
I bought the new Rikon bench top model, similar to the Porter Cable a few months ago in hopes of using it for the same thing as you mentioned. So far, I haven't used it enough to say much, but I sure am glad I got it. After setting it up, it has already sped up many of my tasks. I got mine on sale so it ended up costing me the same as that Porter Cable. Can't wait to make a few necks just to use it more! In fact, just by the looks of it, it's almost identical to the Magnum. The Rikon also has a helical style cutting head, and was fairly easy to set up. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
If you want a jointer, it will be useful, but if you don't want to add another tool's footprint to your shop, a router table with a split fence (properly set up for jointing, obviously) can do some of the things you want to do. I have a number of power tools, but I only have so much room, and a jointer doesn't earn its keep enough for me to justify its taking up the room. Just another perspective. If you have the room for a jointer, I am sure it will be handy. |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
In terms of needing a power jointer to produce square edges, it appears to me that besides the top and back joints and the fretboard edges/joining face and fretboard face, there's few times when a square joint is critical to a structural requirement. All of those joints mentioned can be easily milled with a jack plane and simple jigs, just as square cutoffs on sides and other parts can be done with bench hooks and a sharp plane. If space or funds are limited, a few fixtures and a sharp plane might be enough to do what needs done. Looking through several of the local Craigslist listings, a used 6" long bed jointer from Jet or Powermatic runs between about $500 and $650, and older Grizzly 6" machines from $200 to $400. These are all the older style of jointers that do not feature helical or spiral head insert cutters, but can be upgraded for a few hundred dollars...I suspect these sellers are upgrading to 8" or larger machines with insert tooling, which says something about how straight-bladed jointers perform with abrasive or figured wood. I am finally getting comfortable with working on our 8" helical head long bed jointer, but it remains a tool that I use with great focus and an abundance of caution. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
Another way to get a nice, straight, square edge on something the size of a neck blank or smaller is with the table saw and a sled. Get a board wide enough to overlap where the blade is and where the miter slot is. Attach some runner stock underneath to run smooth but snug in the miter slot. Cut off the part of the board that overlaps the saw blade by just running the board through; that gives you a very reliable edge for where the workpiece will be cut if it overlaps the edge of the board. install some threaded inserts so you can use hold downs. Put the workpiece on the board with an edge fully overlapping the board's blade side edge, clamp it down with the hold downs. Run it through. Presto, a beautiful straight, square edge. Again, I don't need a jointer enough to justify the space it would take up. Between the router table, the table saw, and hand planes, I get by fine. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
A jointer can do a lot more than square an edge. There are "work arounds" if you don't have one, but they usually make things a little more complicated. I use a 6 inch floor model that stays against a wall and doesn't take up too much space. If you get a bench top model find a heavy one or some way to secure it and damp vibration. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
I can't speak for either of these jointers, but any bench top models that I've seen in action sound like a jet taking off. Belt driven and heavy cast iron are much easier on the ears. Alex |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
We have an old 6" Craftsman (Delta/Rockwell) tweaked to perfection. I certainly would not try to make necks from scratch (solid, laminated or scarf joint) without it. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
I have an old 6" Craftsman and by old I mean the owner's manual was printed in 1954. I got it and the stand it's on for $100 on Craigslist and it works beautifully. Its main use is for jointing plates and squaring up neck blanks with occasional use for squaring up parts for jigs where right angles matter and the 6" width and 36" table are plenty big for those uses. Even though it's a fairly special purpose tool, I'm very happy to have it because it's so fast and accurate. It sits against one wall so it's footprint is pretty small. I was surprised by the mention of squaring up bridge blanks on a jointer. Can that be done safely? I'm also wondering how fretboards are run safely through a jointer, particularly the edges. The person who taught me how to use one really put the fear in me of using it for anything with small dimensions. Maybe there are some uses that I'm missing out on. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
I got a 6" Craftsman new many moons ago, and get a lot of use out of it. I'd have to say it was worth it. OTOH, had I to do it over again, I'd get an 8" so that I could surface stock for re-sawing into guitar tops and backs. Joiners and shapers are by far the most dangerous of power tools in terms of the level of damage they do. I was introduced to the joiner when I was in carpentry school in the Navy. The instructor said that the normal way you use one is to hold the stock down with your left hand over the cutter, and push it through using your right hand with your thumb hooked over the end. When (not if) the tool kicks back it folds your right thumb back against your arm, breaking it, and your left hand goes down into the cutter head. You're left not knowing which one to suck on. I think of that image every time I walk up to that machine, and look around for the hold down and push stick. I've been using it for over forty years, and can still count to ten... |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
Alan Carruth wrote: I've been using it for over forty years, and can still count to ten... . . .If I remove one shoe. Sorry, Alan. Couldn't resist. Potential for injury is another reason I am not running out to buy a jointer and make room for it. I have enough tools that scare me. If I really needed one, I would make room, but I get by fine with the other methods I mentioned above. |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
The differences between the magnum and the porter cable you have listed is that the magnum has a helical cutter head albeit with HSS inserts not the longer lasting carbide. The Porter cable has the older style with 2 straight HSS knives. I have a Delta branded version of the PC which is probably 30 years old bought second hand and still going strong. The bigger cast iron floor mounted Jointers are obviously better, but it only cost me $100, it does all I need like squaring up rough sawn wood etc and I can easily lift it out of the way. |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
Quote: I was surprised by the mention of squaring up bridge blanks on a jointer. Can that be done safely? I'm also wondering how fretboards are run safely through a jointer, particularly the edges. The 'Rule of (No) Thumb' we got was nothing shorter than wrist to elbow length, but if there is a safe way to do shorter stock, I would be interested as well! Last week, we helped out an aspiring bow maker with material and some milling on some bow wood. We jointed ten bow blanks out of left-over ipe, and both before and after, ran some figured and spalted maple to see if the inserts had dulled. There was very little difference in the performance of the carbide inserts afterwards. If you are going to work abrasive woods, carbide insert tooling may save you some money over the long run on sharpening or replacement blades. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jointer - what is the minimum size that is useful |
"I was surprised by the mention of squaring up bridge blanks on a jointer. Can that be done safely? " " The 'Rule of (No) Thumb' we got was nothing shorter than wrist to elbow length, but if there is a safe way to do shorter stock, I would be interested as well!" Squaring up bridge blanks on a jointer can be done safely. First unplug the jointer, then glue a piece of sand paper to one of the tables, square up the fence and holding the blank against the fence, rub it vigorously against the sandpaper....... (yes I'm joking!) " I'm also wondering how fretboards are run safely through a jointer" I have run fretboards through a jointer and some shorter stock, by first hot melt gluing a piece of wood to them that holds my hand well above the cutterhead, and then taking light cuts. (hot melt glue can be released with denatured alcohol) Even with longer stock I use push sticks and try to avoid passing my hand over the cutter head. " OTOH, had I to do it over again, I'd get an 8" so that I could surface stock for re-sawing into guitar tops and backs." If you remove the guard and push the fence out of the way, you can do a reasonable job of surfacing 8" stock using a 6 inch jointer (hump side down),but it does have some limitations. Oh yeah...... I can count to 9 and 7/8ths using both hands, thanks to a jointer and portable belt sander. |
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