Official Luthiers Forum!

I must have missed it. I'm looking for the dimensions for a pre-war D28 rosette. The 5-9-5 purfling pattern. I'm pretty sure John Hall (BluesCreekGuitars) has the black/white material. I'mjust looking for what the period-correct dimensions are for each layer/width....hole diameter.....etc

thanks
curtis

_________________
"I need to hurry up, the years are going by far too fast"

John should be able to provide you will all of the information as well. Reach out to him.

I'm sure I lifted this from the UMGF and other sources:

From your sound hole come in .100 to the "inside of the inner ring "5" BWBWB. The outside of the inner ring to the inside of the middle "9" .100 BWBWBWBWB. The outside of the middle ring to the inside of the outer ""5" BWBWBWB .0115 actual material thickness are all over the place.

This is my latest I like the "grained ivoroid" but maple looks great and is more traditional

Martin didn't use bias ivroid

there are a few different rosettes but if your looking for the old style pre war
b/w/b/w/b inner and outer rings are .015 .015. .020 .015 .015
middle ring
was b/w/b/w/b/w/b/w/b
.015 /.015 /.020/ .040 /.015./040/.020/.015/.015
They used maple and ivory then they used the celluloid for the heavy white changing to all white celluloid but the 45 used maple later than the 28's . Martin started to phase out maple starting in 1933
as the change occured the rosettes on the 28 and 45 got a bit wider. The 18 series didn't change all that much other than the inner and outer ring got wider . I have seen 18 rosettes with rosewood center rings , and black wood fiber.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

[quote="bluescreek"]Martin didn't use bias ivroid

there are a few different rosettes but if your looking for the old style pre war
b/w/b/w/b inner and outer rings are .015 .015. .020 .015 .015
middle ring
was b/w/b/w/b/w/b/w/b
.015 /.015 /.020/ .040 /.015./040/.020/.015/.015
They used maple and ivory then they used the celluloid for the heavy white changing to all white celluloid but the 45 used maple later than the 28's . Martin started to phase out maple starting in 1933
as the change occured the rosettes on the 28 and 45 got a bit wider. The 18 series didn't change all that much other than the inner and outer ring got wider . I have seen 18 rosettes with rosewood center rings , and black wood fiber.[/quote]
Well I believe I bought my bias ivoroid from you for rosettes

Anyway after looking at quite a few guitars and hundreds of pics it seems they used whatever they happened to have on hand, here are some pics for reference. John Hall sent me some good information and John Arnold has been very helpful. Getting the proportions right is the key.

Thanks guys! I believe I have enough info from ya'll to nail down my plan of attack. I like those pics, especially the last one.

_________________
"I need to hurry up, the years are going by far too fast"

While we - like Mr. Hall suggested - have not seen the use of end-grain ivoroid on Martin rosettes, we have inspected or worked on a number of 1940's and 1950's Martins with end-grain ivoroid purflings. The photo below shows an early 1942 D-18 with end grain ivoroid purfing line (Martin verifies it as being from the same batch as Elvis Presley's 1942 D-18) . We've also seen several 1952 and 1953 models with the same treatment, so it would seem to give some support to Collings and others (including our shop) that prefers the additional interest in the rosette and purfing lines that end grain provides.

Is the correct term end-grain or bias-cut? In sewing, bias-cut means that the fabric is cut at a 45 degree angle across the mid-line to get a better drape. Is end-grain ivoroid indeed cut on the diagonal, instead of square-cut?

Also worth noting, the difference in width between the spacing from the center-to-inner and center-to -outer rings. We see some variations between vintage and modern rosettes, but the difference (greater spacing on outer ring) is always there.

The second shot has nothing to do with rosettes, but reflects how thankful I am for the luthiers in my shop and here online...this was waiting for me Wednesday AM in my shop storage cubby, along with a nice note offering Happy Thanksgiving wishes. Thanks, fellas...it was tasty!

_________________
A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower

Hey guys, where do you get the bias cut ivoroid purfling?
Thanks
Glen

Makes me wonder what the"G" in "Woody G" stands for. Very tasteful. I MEANT THE ROSETTE PHOTO!

Thanks.

_________________
"I need to hurry up, the years are going by far too fast"

Last batch I got was from Axiom

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Thanks Steve, I'll check them out.

Mr. Hall sells .060" material through his Blues Creek store as well.

Would that I were affiliated with Glenfiddich, Glendronach, Gengoyne, or even Glenlivet...some of us have multiple sugar daddies, but I'd settle for a single malt daddy.

_________________
A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower

Glen, keep in mind that most places charge a hazmat fee for shipping ivoroid, about $27 if I recall correctly. On the last buy I went in with a fellow OLF'er to share fees and bought enough for several years.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"