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| Changing the paper on your drum sander http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48595 |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Changing the paper on your drum sander |
The recent threads on drum sanders have me thinking about what I like about my Performax 10-20. It's a great tool and I haven't had any problems with mine. However, my paper snaps at the clamp about half the time, which makes the already somewhat pricey replacement roles even pricier. When I wrap a new role on, I leave an 1/8th of an inch between wraps as recommended. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Have you found a way around them? I also k ow a number of you buy second-part roles of paper and cut them to size yourself rather than buying the Jet roles. What sandpaper do you like to use? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | ernie [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
I use keystone abrasives .in PA. I have their green 60 grit paper that lasts forever for my rough sanding.I have a performax 1994 16-32 |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
Hey James, Happy Holidays to ya! Here's what I do and forgive me please if any of this is redundant (we have a 10 - 20 also). 1) Vacuum out all the dust, if any... from the interior drum fins. A bent acid brush can help knock it out of there. It's not critical but it does get in the way and make your hands more slippery when stretching the paper. 2) I leave 1/8" between wraps too and the reason being is the design of this drum uses spring clamps and possibly centrifugal force (don't quote me on that one, it's a hunch unconfirmed) to tighten the paper and if there are not the 1/8" gaps the paper can't tighten on the drum. 3) I always cut the last 1/2" off the pointed part that goes into the spring clamp. I find it easier to get a tight fit without excess paper ends hitting things in a place that we can's see. I have the special tool but never used it. I've cut my own and used OEM paper and prefer OEM paper once I learned how to make it last longer. Never more than 1/8 of a turn on the crank downward at a time and multiple passes without even moving the crank at all can be counted on at least the first time to take a few more thou off because of flex in the machine. Mine's 10 now and has been flawless. They do have their weird characteristics but when you learn what they are the work arounds are pretty easy. Like you James I keep my outboard side of the drum 2 - 3 thou higher. I think you posted this a couple of days ago. By the way my machine was initially dialed in 10 years ago, moved four times and still is just as dialed in as ever. It lives these days in our commercial shop in Ann Arbor. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
We now put a length of 1" reinforced packing tape on the taper on both ends, we too found the abrasive to be a little brittle causing the tip to occasionally snap off at the clamp. |
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| Author: | cablepuller1 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
ernie wrote: I use keystone abrasives .in PA. I have their green 60 grit paper that lasts forever for my rough sanding.I have a performax 1994 16-32 Hey Ernie Just got a drum sander today. Was going to ask about paper grit Would you use 60 grit on spruce or does it tear it up. Have ebony and rosewood to thickness to so don't know what grit to get Cheers 
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
I have a Performax 16-32 and use the bulk rolls of Jet sand paper. I've never had an end break. I don't leave a 1/8" gap between wraps and that has not caused any problems. I do trim the ends about 1/2" before installing. Most all of my sanding is with 120 with occasional use of 80. "Never more than 1/8 of a turn on the crank downward at a time and multiple passes without even moving the crank at all can be counted on at least the first time to take a few more thou off because of flex in the machine." This is exactly what I've found works for me. I'm another one who keeps the outboard end set a few thousandths high. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
I use 60 grit on mine. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
James, I be a little unorthodox here but I use to have a problem with the sandpaper coming loose also. I got pretty frustrated once after it gouged a top and I've been using a light coat of spray adhesive on the drum ever since. Problem solved! Cleans right up with a little Naptha. You can mail order various grits of zirconia-alumina pre-cut wraps at woodworkers supply, they last forever. http://woodworker.com/80-grit-readywrap ... 55-102.asp |
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| Author: | ernie [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
I only use 60 grit sanding to hog off thicker uneven glued up sections on the 16-32 then it goes into the woodmaster 37in drum sander with 80 grit, so if my final back is 2.2mm or .90 I will sand to 80 grit or .105-110. The rest, 20 or 15 thou gets planed, or scraped and sanded to 320 before it/s done. Beware, 60 grit leaves deep scratches so on the above mentioned scenario I would sand with 60 grit to about 3.25=3.5 mm or about .125-.135, then move on to the 80 grit , and take out all the sanding scratches of the 60 grit Leave it thick enough so you have extra thickness to take out the deep sanding scratches otherwise you will take down too much wood before you get down to your targeted finished thickness. .Ask me how I know ?? 
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| Author: | James Orr [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
Thanks everyone! My apologies for not responding sooner. I posted the original message during a road trip. I really like the idea of reinforcing the area that clamps in with packing tape. I'll have to give that a go! I cut the last 1/2" or so of my roles, too. Fun that this turned into a technique discussion. I think I usually use 100 grit paper and also make 1/8th turns. Sometimes I'll run it through two or three times as a setting just to make the sander do less work. I've been slowing my conveyor speed down to 20 as well, which seems to help on hard woods without any negative effects. When I was sending koa through last summer and getting burns, I had to re-think the way I was doing things (there's a thread somewhere on that). |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
Jim Watts wrote: James, I be a little unorthodox here but I use to have a problem with the sandpaper coming loose also. I got pretty frustrated once after it gouged a top and I've been using a light coat of spray adhesive on the drum ever since. Problem solved! Cleans right up with a little Naptha. You can mail order various grits of zirconia-alumina pre-cut wraps at woodworkers supply, they last forever. http://woodworker.com/80-grit-readywrap ... 55-102.asp Hey Jim! Your post caught my eye. Performax and later Jet recommended that we leave that 1/8" gap between winds when loading their precut paper on the drum. The gaps are so when the thing's springs take up the slack the paper can move and sinch up more tightly on the drum. Wouldn't a spray adhesive restrict or prevent the wraps from moving and getting tighter? I know you said it's no big deal but you still have to clean it off and there is a lot of dust in there too. It sounds like your work-around that works great for you may have the machine loaded not as the manufacturer intended. No harm in this if it works for you but I've never had any problem with paper coming loose, being hard to load, or ruining any work piece.  I must be doing something wrong.... 
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
We use 80 grit pre-marked bulk Klingspor-branded paper in Jet packaging...cut on the black line for a 16-32 refill, or on the other colored lines for other Jet/Performax sanders. The Klingspor rolls are a little more expensive than bulk paper from Industrial Abrasives, but the reduction in time to cut and mount a new wrap makes use of the product cost effective for this shop. As others noted, we also use some space between each wrap to allow the paper to expand with heat and stretch with wear, but we use closer to 1/16" than 1/8" by the time the paper breaks in (we re-tension 2-3 times after installation of a new drum wrap to take up the excess length and fine-tune the fit). We used to reinforce the ends of the paper with package tape (and then strapping tape), but after modifying the edges of the drum end slots over which the paper passes, we've found that it is not necessary. The modification is simple - just finish rounding over the edges of the drum slots through which the paper passes for clamping - this provides a much less abrupt turn through the slot to the clamp and avoids the excess heat and wear seen when the paper is forced to make an abrupt turn. We used a small mill bastard file to remove the hard edge and add a bit of a rounded ramp shape and emery paper to polish the slot edge under the wrap. The more gradual the transition from drum surface to clamp, the less chance there is of the wrap wearing or burning through.. I will see if we have a shot or two of the modification and any process pictures in the archive. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
Woodie, good idea on easing the edge where the paper goes into the drum. Although I've had no failures with my Jet 10-20 I'll do that mod next time I change paper. |
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| Author: | SG Lou [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
James, I'm seriously thinking about purchasing the Jet 10-20 to do my maple tops for soild bodies. Running 8" wide pieces through it is no problem but, have you ever had to run a piece wider then 10" and if so does the piece come out evenly sanded when you run the un-sanded side through ? Lou |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
I do it all the time on my 10-20. You just set it up so that the open end of the drum is a few thousandths of an inch (mine is 0.004") higher then the closed end. Works great. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
Lou-- I'm not James (remember Jessi Colter's "I'm Not Lisa"?), but I used to own a 10-20. I think people have varying success with the necessary adjustment to the 10-20 for this operation. I didn't have trouble, then I did. Basically, you have to elevate the cantilevered side (the left if you are on the infeed side of the sander) a few thousandths of an inch in order to avoid a ridge. The ridge comes from the edge of the sandpaper. I think the 10-20 is a dandy sander. This issue was my one and only issue with it. I just had trouble getting that extra height dialed in so it avoided the ridge but also left the surface at a fairly uniform thickness. I tended to go one way or the other. YMMV, obviously. Plenty of folks have no trouble at all. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
doncaparker wrote: I just had trouble getting that extra height dialed in so it avoided the ridge but also left the surface at a fairly uniform thickness. I tended to go one way or the other. YMMV, obviously. Plenty of folks have no trouble at all. Yeah, it would definitely be unfair to make it sound like a simple thing to do. In theory it is, but I've noticed that when I raise the outboard side, the inboard side lowers a tad, and so it's a game of trial and error. I take the paper off and use an aluminum setup block and a feeler gauge. It takes a while to dial in when I need to do it. I slide the setup block under the inboard side and lower the drum until it just makes contact. I look by seeing if I can see any whisker of backlight (the sun for me) between the block and the drum, and I also spin the drum by hand to see if I can feel or hear contact. Then I do the same on the outboard side, stacking the feeler gauge on top of the setup block. It's a game of back and forth. Thankfully once I tighten the screws down, the adjustment doesn't get out of whack too easily. Only when I move the sander in a truck from one location to another does mine seem to need the help. I've seen a method where you connect a batter to a small light bulb or use a multi-meter to look for connectivity between a feeler gauge and the drum, but it never actually worked for me for whatever reason. |
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| Author: | SG Lou [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Changing the paper on your drum sander |
Thanks for the replay Guys. The reason I'm asking is I mainly build Solid Body guitars which range in width from 13 to 15 inches wide. For the amount that I build I can't justify dropping a ton of money on a Jet 16-32 sander. Maybe if I ever hit the Lottery 
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