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Notching the x
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48679		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Notching the x
Hi

Anybody got any neat tricks for making a great joint where the x brace crosses over.

Mark mine with pencil then carefully cut the notch .Mine are ok but could be better.
There must be a better way

Cheers
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
I cut them slightly undersized with the table saw then clean up with a XActo blade and chisel for a tight fit. Takes longer to talk about then it does to do it.
Author:  Clinchriver [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Tablesaw, set your angle, sneak up on your cut perfect every time.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
I Mark with a pencil, cut slightly undersized with a razor saw. Then I final fit with a file for width and a chisel for depth.
Author:  Mike Franks [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
I made a little miter box for a razor saw. I mark the depth of cut and then chisel out the notch at the bottom and it is a press fit.
Author:  kencierp [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Yeah I like to get that joint nice and tight -- I use a razor saw and this tool:

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/Xb ... guide.html
Author:  murrmac [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
linen patch .... white glue .... multitude of sins ....
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
I have a router jig that allows me to rout the notches at the angle I want. For 1/4" braces I would use a 1/4" bit and thickness the braces to a couple of thousands over. I then sand the notch area with a wood block until I get a squeak fit.

Got the jig idea from Charlie Hoffman.
Author:  david farmer [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
You could do what most manufacturers do. Don't worry about it and cover up the mess with some cloth and glue. laughing6-hehe

Sorry, not helpful.


One trick:
what ever you use to cut the notch, it's easier to take thin plane shavings off the side of the brace than adjust the notch size. Yes I know some will protest it could throw your chladni patterns way out of wack. Just don't tell them you do it that way.

Oops, Mr. Kennedy already mentioned it.

Spell check suggests chlamydia is what I'm looking for when I write Chladni. Fun with algorithms!
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Chlamydia is actually mentioned in the now out of print book- Safe Sex With Your Guitar
Author:  James Orr [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Terence Kennedy wrote:
I have a router jig that allows me to rout the notches at the angle I want. For 1/4" braces I would use a 1/4" bit and thickness the braces to a couple of thousands over. I then sand the notch area with a wood block until I get a squeak fit.

Got the jig idea from Charlie Hoffman.


Same here, but I don't even use a jig. This is how I've been doing it since Guitar #1. I got the idea from Lance.
Attachment:
IMG_3849.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_3858.jpg
Author:  WilliamS [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Similar to others. I cut just inside line with hand saw then refine with a chisel and file. Usually takes just a few minutes.

If I were building a bunch and/or had an extra laminate trimmer that didn't stay set up for other things I'd probably do it like James and Terence.
As is, it would take me longer to pull a router from a jig and set it up than doing it by hand.

Image
Author:  mqbernardo [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Terence Kennedy wrote:
Chlamydia is actually mentioned in the now out of print book- Safe Sex With Your Guitar


Sorry, nothing us for to add here. I'd just like to quote this.
Author:  George L [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
I struggled with this at first as well. The solution I came up with was to use my table saw with a dado set to cut the notches and then to use my thickness sander to gradually reduce the width of the braces until the notches fit together perfectly.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Same as George, but the braces are batch sanded to .254, then dadoed at just over .250, braces are very tight.
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
I just follow the marking and cutting procedure outlined in the Cumpiano book. Works great every time. I have moved beyond that book in many ways, but I still like the sequence the book outlines for bracing.
Author:  Edzard [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
I use this one.

Attachment:
Kerfmaker.jpg
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
cablepuller1 wrote:
Anybody got any neat tricks for making a great joint where the x brace crosses over.

One is seldom a problem. With a few, things can get interesting...
Attachment:
DSCF4984s.jpg

Done with a table router fixture to get the angle and an indexing pin to get the spacing, all 12 sticks together. The bit is sized to the brace width. Rout to a hair over half way depth. Turn half the sticks over and slot them into the other half of the sticks.

Can be done on a table saw using a very similar fixture, but getting the right kerf width for your selected brace width is more problematical (and typically more expensive). X-bracing can be done exactly the same way. Just stop after one cut, as per Terence above.
Author:  sdsollod [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Trevor, I know you are very knowledgeable, but I don't get this bracing scheme... seems like the top wouldn't be able to move at all... ...nice jointing BTW.
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
sdsollod wrote:
Trevor, I know you are very knowledgeable, but I don't get this bracing scheme... seems like the top wouldn't be able to move at all... ...nice jointing BTW.

It's similar to the system used on Smallman type classical guitars - a very thin top with a light-weight lattice to support it. I used that system in this instance because the owner wanted a loud koa guitar and the only way to get near was to make a top with the same mass and stiffness as a spruce top. Because koa is quite a lot denser than spruce the only way to get the mass down is to go thin, then the bracing follows to get the strength and stiffness back whilst keeping the overall mass low. It worked very well. More info in this OLF thread here.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
yep ... two Freud diablos, plus a Forrest blade stiffener and then Lee Valley dado shims (the really tough but thin plastic ones, in 5 thou increments) to get the sizing right (my X braces are all .280 or so) - test on scrap .. set your mitre gauge to the desired angle and blade height to a touch over half way ... cut away ... once you know the correct dado spacers needed, cutting the notch takes about 2 minutes including setup/blade change ....
Author:  Pat Foster [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Single edge razor blade squeezed into the brace to cut the sides of the notch, the a narrow chisel to cut the bottom of the notch.

Pat
Author:  TimAllen [ Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
I tried a couple of ways; for me the table saw method works best. There's a nice video tutorial here, thanks to Chris Paulick:

viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=23633

As Chris mentions in the comments below the video, you can nibble with a saw blade rather than use a dado set, and that's what I do. Doesn't take long, though you have to smooth the bottom of the slots a little bit.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Notching the x
Pre-dado system. Dado better.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45045&p=595810&hilit=Stick+with+lump#p595810
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