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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:48 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Like any other "hybrid" made up of 2 parents... The children can share varying components of the parents.

In a white/Sitka mix - some trees are going to be more like white, some more like Sitka. And it's going to vary how they are like their parents.

I have some lutz that turns orange like Sitka. Some that stays lighter and not orange.... Some has very prominent medullary Rays. Other has hardly any visible Rays even when cut bang-on. Some has that classic Sitka feel when working it.. Some doesn't feel anything like Sitka.. Etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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TRein wrote:
Shane Neifer wrote:
Bob Shanklin wrote:
The Katz wood came from Tumbler Ridge BC in the eastern part of the province.

Bob


Likely an Engelmann/White Spruce hybrid then Similiar to the wood sold out of the Kootney's and that Larry Stamm used to produce.

Shane

Shane, Good to see your posts again. Do you know if Larry Stamm is still in the tone wood biz?


Hi Tom, Larry's site says he has wood available. I would just send him an email. I haven't spoken with him in a few years. Good luck!

Shane

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:14 am 
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J De Rocher wrote:
Shane - I don't know much about conifer hybrids. How hard or easy is it to identify a Lutz (or Katz) hybrid tree in the wild? Are they visibly different enough to allow a clear easy ID? Also, how consistent or varied are traits between individual hybrid trees produced from the same two parent species? I'm guessing the mix of parental genes isn't necessarily 50/50 and varies over some range of proportions between individual hybrid trees which would affect traits of individual hybrids. I'm wondering if the wood from one Lutz tree has good characteristics for guitar tops, does another Lutz tree necessarily have the same good qualities since it's a different hybrid?


Man, I printed a nice long explanation and posted it and I don't know where it went. So I will try again.

So, hybrids can be identified by their cone structure. The differences are subtle so you need experience to see the variances. I don't have that experience. There are also range maps that have been published but they are pretty general. Typically this type of research is done when there is a commercial interest but few, except us that use this wood for instruments, are concerned about the nuances of spruce. So, funding for intensive research is not likely. The research has concluded though that spruce does hybridize and it has also concluded that in the area around Terrace, BC the spruce is a hybrid. Lutz Spruce can be a hybrid of Sitka, Engelmann and White spruce. Sitka is a salt water tolerant sub species, White and Engelmann are not. Engelmann, at least on the coastal mountain range, is a high elevation tree (above 3,500 feet). White and Sitka are medium to low elevation trees. Lutz hybrids come about this way: when you have long open valleys, like the Skeena River, that carve through the coastal mountains and create a low elevation corridor it allows Sitka to move inland along these water courses (Sitka likes water and rain). White and Engelmann spruce will not get too close to the ocean as they do not play well with the salt air and water. So in these long open valleys there is a transition zone where the coastal Sitka makes way for the interior White and Engelmann spruces. Now as Engelmann is high elevation it is unlikely, but not impossible, that Engelmann does not mix with SItka. But White Spruce and Sitka share the same elevation profile and do freely hybridize in this transition zone. My best trees came 900 to 2000 feet elevation. Well below the Engelmann influence as far as elevation goes. As I selected my trees based on size, trunk alignment (minimal twist), grain count, grain spacing, colour (to some degree) I was likely also selecting for a significantly reduced range of variance in physical properties. The more criteria one selects against the more consistent the product will be. This would also be true from the very restricted range of harvest, likely less than 1,000 square miles. Having said all of this there is definitely variances in structural and likely tonal aspects, even within the same tree (there is much more compressive weight that rested on the wood harvested near the butt of a 180 foot tall 6 foot diametre tree than there would near the upper usable sections of that same tree. There has to be some effect from this alone.

Anyway, I hope this adds to the conversation and allows for more thought and discussion.

Shane

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These users thanked the author Shane Neifer for the post (total 4): Terence Kennedy (Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:05 pm) • Johny (Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:37 pm) • George L (Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:13 pm) • Pmaj7 (Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:45 am)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Thanks, Shane, for giving such a detailed answer (twice). It's much appreciated.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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J De Rocher wrote:
Thanks, Shane, for giving such a detailed answer (twice). It's much appreciated.


A google search shows that Steve McMinn at Pacific Rim Tonewoods (PRT), one of the main suppliers for the large production guitar companies, is now supplying Lutz Spruce as well. His main customer is Taylor Guitars and I sold them some tops a few years ago for their R-Taylor line. I was a bit concerned with Mario's passing and my leaving the area that the wood would be lost for a while, so I am glad to see PRT there. I did sell my business to Terrace residents and the new owners do keep wood in stock but I think it is secondary to their cedar sawmill business, at least in the short term.

Glad I could help as well.

Shane

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Shane, nice to have you back. Thanks for the info.

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