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All the talk of rosewood being banned by Cites has me wondering where the industry will go for brisges and fingerboards?
What are your thoughts/suggestions?

dave

Just to be clear, it's not a ban. The use of the word ban has been unnecessarily raising people's blood pressure on various forums. The new regulations allow continued export of rosewood and instruments containing rosewood for commercial purposes with documentation that the wood was harvested legally.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

A few suggestions:
katalox (AKA Mexican ebony)
gombiera (AKA Brazilian ebony)
macacauba (AKA coyote, maca wood, granadillo, curatinga rosewood)
pau ferro (AKA morado)

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John

I have made one with Katalox and like it a lot. Finished - it's beautiful and very hard. It's nearly as black as Ebony.

Cumaru - called Brazilian teak or Brown Ebony because of the color
Ipe
Jatoba/Brazilian cherry.

There's also Richlite and Rocklite. I would have already tried these - except they cost TWICE what Rosewood costs and 50% more than Ebony.

I think Richlite and Rocklite have about everything I am looking for in a fretboard wood except they are crazy expensive right now. I will definately try some once the price comes down some.

Thanks

"I think Richlite and Rocklite have about everything I am looking for in a fretboard wood except they are crazy expensive right now. I will definately try some once the price comes down some. "

I have built countertops out of richlite. When you mill it it produces a fine sticky dust.At the end of the day you will think you spent it in a coal mine. The coal mine might be preferable. I used a piece to make a rail for my tablesaw fence. I have some other scraps That I could use for fingerboards, but I'm not all that enthusiastic about it.
If you can find a cabinet shop who uses it you may be able to pick up some scraps for free.

There are any number of woods that can be used for bridges if you engineer them right. Walnut is very good, for example, so long as you take into account that it's not as dense or strong as rosewood or ebony. This can actually be an advantage. Making the bridge a bit larger to keep the mass in line with the traditional materials gives you more glue area to help keep it from peeling up, for example. Or you can make it more in line with the usual size and save weight, which can help bring up the treble.

Those of us looking for 'local' North American hardwoods find ebony substitutes the hardest to come up with. Aside from small amounts of 'Texas ebony' there aren't too many woods that grow in the US that are both hard and very dark. It's possible to dye lighter woods, and supplier Tom Thiel has had some luck dying persimmon black all the way through. Since it's the American member of the family of true ebonies, he calls it 'Ozark Ebony'. At the moment he's working out some kinks in the process, at any rate it will probably cost about as much as African ebony, so it may be a while before such things become common in use.

A traditional choice was ebonized pear wood. This has been a traditional choice and was used on all sorts of instruments including the fabled Stradivarii... (Apparently, the Ebony fingerboards were added later..) Many European instruments also used dyed/ebonized Pear for fretboards.

More recently - millions of Harmony guitars made from the 1940's through the 1970's used pear bridges and fretboards.

I am going to give ipe a try, this stuff is harder than most rosewoods, and african ebonies. On par with african blackwood.
It is nasty to work, stains your hands orange with the cuttings and dust, has a fairly plain grain for the most part and a reasonbly consistent colour.
I have hundreds of b/ft of offcuts, if anyone is interested in trying, I would send for the cost of shipping. Due to the weight( this stuff has a sp.gr. of 1.07, it sinks in water) shipping would not be cheap.
PM me if interested.



B

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

Pleeeze ... let's not even mention Richlite and Rocklite in the same breath, like they had something in common ...

IMO Rocklite Ebano is the future of fretboards and bridges ... the fact it costs double what "real" ebony costs is irrelevant when amortized into the whole cost of the instrument.

Doesn't work with every wood combination but I like it.

For classical guitar bridges, padouk or narra are superb choices, if you can live with the color. Macacauba should be fine too.

For fingerboards I'd go with katalox. Another option would be bulletwood (Manilkara)

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Hard maple, thermally modified at 210 C gets almost black when oiled. I think Gibson is using it. I am going to get some persimmon thermally modified at 210 C just to see what happens. The TM maple route is pretty cheap and should work for both fingerboards and bridges. I have a bit here to experiment with. Persimmon will depend on the cost of the raw wood, but should be reasonable. TM on a per fingerboard basis is pretty inexpensive.

Grant

Persimmon moves like crazy in my shop and needs 5 yrs at least to dry out. But then I got it fresh from a sawmill. I like it makes nice bridges and FB

Gibson used dyed pear on mandolin headstock veneers, front and back, and neck centers too. Probably a matter of availability and $$$.
I preferred African Blackwood for guitar bridges. Drop a blank on a saw table, then an ebony blank. No comparison.

what about a stabilized (resin infused) wood? It could be dyed even. I've made knife handles out of this kind of material and they hold up really well in the kitchen. I don't know how they would work sonically, but from a durability perspective it seems promising.

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Blog on Making Stuff: http://www.McGlynnOnMaking.com

Rocklite makes a fine bridge - stiff enough and a lot lighter than ebony. For fretboards it is ok but it really doesn't add a lot of stiffness to the neck. So as well as the rather high cost you might find yourself stiffening a neck with graphite or CF. More time, more cost.

Walnut, maple, pear, some denser pieces of cherry all make a fine bridge, and they don't upset customers if you stain them black. Pear takes dye very well and machines like cheese - it was used for years in the piano trade as an alternative to ebony. It's superior in many ways.

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nigel

http://www.theluthierblog.com

How well does stabilized wood glue, Joe? I've been temped to buy some for a rosette, but haven't because of my lack of knowledge.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Heck, I've used Mesquite, Pecan, Padook, Bubinga, Ebony, Bocote...
Funny, I've never used Rosewood.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Padauk, the version that is stiff and won't bend for sides, is very hard & resonant. I am currently using it for 'boards and bridges on my less expensive guitars, I can't say enough how much I like it.

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Oh -- that's a good point. I've only used epoxy with it (kind of the only option when you're gluing metal and wood to make a knife handle). You'd probably want to do some experiments to see how HHG and maybe titebond would work. But if we can glue oily dense woods successfully, I'd be hopeful this could work.

I've been thinking about it mostly for arsthetics -- like a birdseye maple fretboard that wouldn't show dirt and finish wear.

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Blog on Making Stuff: http://www.McGlynnOnMaking.com

Black Walnut for me. I like it.


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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

In case anybody is curious, here is what 210 degree C thermally modified hard maple looks like compared to ebony and EIR. Just a light coat of fingerboard oil on one end.





The maple is almost as dark as the ebony, just a bit more browner toned.

Grant

210 deg. C IS 410 FAHRENHEIT . Cooked or torrified?
Looks pretty good and maple is already a proven material.

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Tell us a bit more Grant? Did you do that yourself with the maple?

You definitely have my interest. Where and how did you "thermally modify" that maple?