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 Post subject: CITES question...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
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First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
As I understand it, only commercial exports require a permit?

If I sell a guitar to Joe in the USA, I need a permit. But, if I sell it to Tom across the street, who then gives it to Joe as a gift, Tom does not need a certificate.

Is that right?


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 Post subject: Re: CITES question...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 2423
First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
As I understand it, no export permit is needed for non-BRW rosewood or bubinga as long as no money exchanges hands across the border in association with the travel of the guitar across the border (aside from shipping costs).

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 Post subject: Re: CITES question...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:24 pm
Posts: 50
First name: Mike
Last Name: Sankey
City: Ottawa
State: Ontario
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I'm pretty sure that to qualify for the personal item exemption, Tom would have to go across the border with the guitar. Legally speaking, he would also be required to bring it back home again too, although I suppose it's unlikely that anyone would check. He can't (legally) give it to Joe as a gift while he's there. Even if he did, Joe might run into trouble travelling with the guitar if the Cites rules get more restrictive in the future, since he wouldn't have a legitimate receipt.
And I'm also sure that it requires a permit even if no money exchanges hands. If the object in question is changing hands it's considered to be a sale, and even if it is intended as a gift, they'll want to see a nominal price and full paperwork.
I certainly wouldn't try it. I don't mess around with people who can seize my guitars and have them incinerated at will.


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 Post subject: Re: CITES question...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:02 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 7255
First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Hmm. So weird that different rules can apply to the same object under different circumstances.


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 Post subject: Re: CITES question...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
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First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
Here is what the US regulatory agency had to say in their webinar in December regarding the exemption for "non-commercial exports of a maximum total weight of 10 kg per shipment" (for the US, the 10 kg applies to the rosewood and/or bubinga in the guitar) from the need for an export permit: (notice that gifts are considered as non-commercial shipments.)

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Slide from US FWS CITES presentation.jpg


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