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For folks that use Tru-Oil, what is your finishing schedule?

I'm working on finishing my first guitar. Sapele & Sitka, no grain fill. I've used Tru-Oil on a couple of quick furniture projects, but I want to have this be nicer than those. Previously I wiped on 2 or 3 thin coats, did a quick scuff sand with 320 and wiped on 2 or 3 more coats and called it good (and it was OK).

This blog (http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... u-oil.html) suggests 1,000 grit pre-sand, six coats, 1000 grit sand and six more coats. That seems like a lot, but I'm in a hurry to put this together so I'm inclined to rush anyway.

Any guidance?

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Blog on Making Stuff: http://www.McGlynnOnMaking.com

It has been years since I used it so I don't remember the schedule I used at all. But I do remember putting on A BUNCH of really thin coats and knocking it back with oooo steel wool every so often. IIRC, I did a coat each morning, one after work and one before bed. It was on some sort of "African Mahogany" with no pore fill. It took a while to start to notice the shine build up but then suddenly it started looking really good. It ended up having a nice shiny look with partially filled pores. It was very nice looking and fit the project well, made you want to touch it.

I thing with Tru-oil, you can keep going until you get the look you are after.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I am not an expert, but I have used Tru Oil on my last 6 guitars. However, I French Polish the tops. I pore fill first, and have used both Z-Poxy and Acqua Coat. I put a shellac barrier after the pore fill before the Tru Oil.

- I wipe a thin coat on 2x a day (morning and Night). Wipe on, then I wipe it off with a lint free cotton cloth
- I wipe with the grain
- I wipe off with the grain
- I put on about 12-15 coats
- after 2-3 coats, I level sand with 600 grit
- Once it is "done", I let it sit for several weeks
- Then i use Micro mesh up to 12000
- hand buff with swirl remover, and Meguiars 7

I am happy with the results. I love Tru oil on the neck, as I find it very comfortable as a player.

Glenn

I've used Tru-Oil on furniture and one guitar. I am currently using French polish.

From my perspective, what Glenn is proposing sounds like a great schedule, and probably will look more like a conventional guitar finish than a few coats of Tru-Oil and a bit of sanding. Though that still looks nice.

Many people, including me, use a pad or a spray can of Zissner's to put on a thin coat of shellac before applying Tru-Oil. Saves time to build a finish IMO.

If you aren't filling the sapele, a high gloss finish is going to look kind of odd, so my recommendation would be to not take the trouble to try to get a glossy, buffed finish on the back and sides unless you fill the pores. It is _possible_ to fill the pores with Tru-Oil but there are many faster ways to fill them that work just as well.

In terms of sanding, there is no purpose of sanding the bare wood with 1000 grit. Many go no further than 220, though some go high as 400.

Once you've got coats of Tru-Oil, you can sand them, but it's a very thin finish and very easy to go through. I hope you've gotten the surfaces of your first guitar a lot flatter than I got my first. Any slightly high spot will get sanded through instantly. 0000 steel wool flattens less, which is both an advantage and a disadvantage. My suggestion would be to abrade the finish as little as possible; if you can see areas of uneven application you should sand or steel wool. But don't just sand on general principle. If you sand Tru-Oil much you will just keep removing what you put on and not getting anywhere.

In terms of buffing and polishing, it depends. If your original surfaces were really flat and well filled, buffing as Glenn describes should bring out more shine. For a "natural" open pore finish, a soft gloss will probably work better. If you aren't filling the B & S, you could still devote extra time to the top and the head plate to get more of a gloss there. A decent build-up of Tru-Oil does not to be sanded or buffed to have a fairly high gloss.

You may know this, but the surface will be pretty soft for some weeks, so protect every surface when you handle the guitar, especially when you install strings. DAMHIKT.

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

I'd post my schedule, but Glenn has it close enough for TruOil.
I seal the pores with shellac, and sand back to bare wood before starting the TruOil. The pores don't have to be filled, the first few coats of Oil will do that, but they do need to be sealed so that the Oil doesn't penetrate too deeply into the pores where it doesn't dry in a reasonable amount of time.
I probably put on a few more coats, and I don't do the micromesh.
After the last coat, which has to go on perfectly, I let it cure 3 or 4 weeks (longer is better) and then buff with an automotive type buffer.
If the last coat doesn't go on perfectly, I sand w/1000 and put on another coat.

Now the most important information in this post. Warm the TruOil up to about 120°F before you wipe it on. Holding the bottle under hot running water works fine.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

Joe, I recently posted a sapele 00 finished in Tru-oil.
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48463&start=125.
My schedule is a bit different than others, but I think that Tru-oil is fairly forgiving.
Sand wood to 320 - 400
Apply 4-5 coats first day 1-2 hours apart. The first few coats dry pretty quick
Sand 400-600
Apply 4-5 coats second day 2 hours apart, or til it feel dry enough to handle
Sand 400-800
4-5 coats again waiting til it can be handled
Sand 400-1200
4-5 coats again
Sand 400-1500
Final 2-3coats thinned ~20%. This flows it out very nicely.
Hand buffed a week later with 3m polishing compound. Maybe 1/2 hours worth.
0000 steel wool to the back of the neck
Yeah, probably 20-25 coats, no grain fill, no sealers
Watch the shelf life.

Good luck,
B

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My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

Tru-Oil is pretty forgiving. Follow the good advice above and you should be fine.

You wrote, "I'm in a hurry to put this together so I'm inclined to rush anyway."

I hope you mistakenly omitted the word "not" twice, because being in a hurry is a really bad idea, especially when building a first guitar. Your guitar looks really nice in the pic. Don't blow it now.

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George :-)

Man, the obvious consensus is "lots of thin coats, lots of dry time". I shouldn't be surprised I guess.

I guess I won't be playing this guitar over the weekend. I don't want a high gloss finish, so that helps with the build. I'll probably finish it with 0000 and wax after I have enough build and dry. Then I'll let this sit while I finish the other one.

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Blog on Making Stuff: http://www.McGlynnOnMaking.com

One tip.

Tru oil is very dark. As the finish builds - it gets darker. That's why it's so important to wipe this stuff carefully and evenly - thick sections of finish look like dark blobs - just like when you double stain an area of bare wood by mistake.

Any scratches/dings/chips will show up as very dark lines in your finish..... Crossgrain scratches especially so because it exposes end grain. With Tru oil - these scratches and chips almost look like black pencil lines because it's so dark.

Go over your build with a fine tooth comb and find all these scratches, chips, and dings - and get them filled in using clear epoxy.

That's one of the reasons people talk about sanding out super fine prior to varnishing - the polishing highlights scratches and chips in the wood.... And you can go fix them before it becomes a black line across something.

Scratches, chips, and dings need to be dealt with before doing any finish.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

The amount of time invested will show in the results, so sand and prep fully and completely, apply slowly in small amounts, over a long period. You will be rewarded.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Pore filling can be done with Tru-Oil even on a very porous wood like claro walnut. This tenor ukulele was done with nothing but TO. The first few coats were done by wet sanding with TO and 220 paper. When wet sanding, it's a good idea to thin the TO with mineral spirits. If the wood is less porous, a finer grit can be used to start. The resulting slurry fills the pores. The excess slurry is wiped off after each coat. The wet sanding is done with finer grits as the the process goes along and when the finish is smooth, the TO is applied and polished as described by the other posters.

That's one reason I seal the pores with shellac, it highlights any imperfections in the surface that need to be fixed before starting the TruOil.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

I wet sanded the parts with 1,000 grit and mineral spirits (lightly) and applied a couple more coats. I sanded just enough to take off the gloss and any surface roughness. The next coats looked really good.

This isn't going to be perfect though. I have a number of cosmetic mistakes. I want to get it completed and see how it plays so I can factor everything I learned into #3 (#2 is too far along to avoid some of the mistakes, like the shape of the upper soundboard and neck). But I'll have a much better plan of attack for #3.

It's a little challenging in the shop right now. The power has been off for two days...I live in the mountains in California and we're getting hammered with storms. The power has gone out every week since the first of the year for at least a day. Roads and highways are closed due to landslides and flooding. Crazy times.

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Blog on Making Stuff: http://www.McGlynnOnMaking.com

You can also brush tru oil on, just like a regular varnish. I tried it recently, 10 brushed on coats all done in just over 1 day (I have a UV cabinet) and rubbed out the very next day. To do this you have to take the surface to 1,000G or near. I put it straight on to bare wood. If you don't like that idea you can put on a barrier coat of shellac. Visually, just like any oil varnish it's a really nice looking finish. Just not quite as hard as something like shellac.

If you are trying to finish a guitar with Tru Oil --with or without grain fill--there is no quick solution. If you rush, you will fail. If you don't want to believe me, then press on and find out for yourself. However, you can achieve a beautiful finish with patience. There are lots of recipes for grain filling with the oil or with other means. Then a seal coat. Then many, MANY, MANY thin coats of TruOil. You must also plan on the necessary dry time between your thin applications. I can't tell you how long the dry time will be. It will depend on the conditions in your shop. The complete process could take weeks. If you rush it and apply too thick a coat, or if you try to apply a new coat over an undry coat, you will achieve a gloppy mess that should be stripped off.
In addition to all of this, you must remember that the drying solids can settle out in your can of TruOil, so you should stir it before each application.

If you are in a heck of a hurry, just go to a spar varnish which you paint on thickly. Give it two or three weeks to cure and then wet sand to level.

If there is a fast way to achieve a perfect finish, I am obviously not aware of it.

You might be surprised just how quickly a Tru oil finish can be achieved. At a guess I would say that a brushed on coat is probably twice the thickness (maybe more) than a wiped on coat. Tru oil, in terms of oil varnishes, is pretty thin stuff. That also means that it dries fairly fast. Next time I do a Tru oil finish I'll document my method and the results. Start to finish (not including pore fill) it shouldn't take much more than 3 or 4 days.
In fact I have a personal guitar that I can test this on. Currently it has a home cooked oil varnish on it, I'll remove it today and do the back with a brushed on tru oil. As an experiment it will be interesting to see how quickly I can achieve a good finish.

I've lost count, but I have probably 9-12 *thin* wiped on coats. total. The neck seems to have built up more quickly, I'd expect I'm getting slightly heavier coats on the neck due to how I'm applying it. I put a little on a pad and wipe it on, but since the neck is smaller I tend to apply slightly more on it.

I scuff sanded (dry) with 1,000 after the first 3 coats. That wasn't a ideal as the sandpaper tended to load up. I applied about another three coats, then wet sanded with 1,000 and mineral spirits. That knocked it down nicely and the subsequent coats went on really nicely. I probably have another 5 or 6 coats after wet sanding. I think I'll wet sand again today, maybe with 1,500 grit, and apply one or two more coats and if it looks good leave it at that point to dry for a couple of days before I glue the neck and bridge on.

Given how thin the coats are I'd bet that wet sanding with 1,000 takes at least one or two coats back off the surface. Eventually I'd think the pores would fill, and with enough time to allow for shrinkage and build up you could get a glass smooth surface. I'm not trying for that though, just protection and a nice sheen.

This guitar isn't going to be perfect cosmetically in any case as I've got some issues with the binding and purfling. I need to get through the rest of the process to see how the neck geometry and other functional stuff works out. I just don't want the finish to look like a 2 year old slopped some junk on it. My second guitar is close behind this one and has a walnut neck/back/sides. I'm going to grain fill that one with zpoxy for comparison and finish with Tru-Oil again.

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Blog on Making Stuff: http://www.McGlynnOnMaking.com

When I use Tru-Oil, I just lay it on thin with a small pad, let dry and after the second coat, I scuff back every coat with gray scotchbrite(sp?) pad. In my shop I can do 3 to 4 coats a day, more seems not to work as the under coats are a bit too soft for more. I wait until the second day to scuff the last coat. Several days of this process will usually give me what I want. 10 to 12 coats, if pore filled in advance. Another couple of days if not. The Tru-Oil sealer is a pretty good pore filler, if you try it, though it isn't nearly as fume friendly as the finish itself. It dries very fast, about an hour to scuff back. Pores will fill in about 4 or 5 coats in most woods. It will also dry on Rosewoods, unlike the finish.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I prefer not to stir varnish. Every time I have stirred it up - all the dust, trash, and clumps of cured varnish that settle to the bottom of the can/bottle come back up and it leaves a catastrophe on my work. I get way better results with varnish if I carefully open it and just dip the brush or wiping cloth in the varnish.



Don't use spar varnish. Most spar varnish is designed to form a *very* soft and pliable finish because it has to resist the constant shifting and expansion/contraction of wood outdoors and especially in marine applications. Most people would call it "mushy" compared to any normal finishes they are used to. "Indoor" varnishes are a much better choice. They are made more for furniture - where the expectation is an attractive and hard finish. I have also heard of people using hardwood floor finishes on guitars.



The "fastest" way is to either just not care about the finish or to shop it out to someone else. I suppose you could use something like one thick coat of Boat gel coat resin... But that sort of finish has its own problems.

For necks Addam Stark told me to almost polish the wood going up to at least 600G and wipe on an oil based paste filer that is tinted to get the color you want. It fills and colors the wood at the same time and if you wipe it on thinly the neck stays smooth. Then apply the TruOil in thin coats.

One thing I found out the hard way (and which resulted in my having to refinish several necks) is NEVER apply it directly over an epoxy fill. ZPoxy in my case, resulted in a fuzzy surface happening several months after finishing and requiring sanding back to wood and starting over.

That guitar looks great!

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Buy a package of knee high panty hose. Before using stretch one across a work pot and strain the varnish through it. Toss the hose. I do this with all my finishes before using and when returning unused to the can. I like hose better than paper strainers myself.

That's a pretty broad statement. I've used a spar varnish for about the last 10 or 12 guitars. No complaints from my customers.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Well I managed to get 9 brushed on coats of Tru oil in 2 days. 6 coats in the first day, dry overnight and then rubbed down with 600G. 3 further coats that morning. You won't be able to do this without serious UV.
This is treating Tru oil as though it were a regular oil varnish, which I guess it is. It's just a little thinner than most. I don't rub down between each coat, just use the back of the abrasive paper to flatten any tiny nibs. The secret to brushing oil varnish is to minimise dust and keep everything spotlessly clean. I tend to brush in a bathroom because of the tiled and clean surfaces. I can also switch on the shower for a few minutes to minimise airborne dust. You also want to avoid wearing clothing that creates dust clouds or easily releases fibres too. Brushes really do need to be washed out thoroughly. I only do that if it's left overnight or when I've finished the very last coat, otherwise I keep the brush in a ziplock bag with a few drops of turpentine.
There are two ways to approach the final rub down. Either wait a few weeks, alternately rub down early. One will give a flatter more glass like surface. The other should start off flat but shrink back over time, hugging the wood a little more. It still needs weeks before it approaches the final hardness though.

This will depend on a lot of factors--most of which will be lost on people using Tru Oil for the first time. Not the least of these factors will be the conditions in one's shop, as I said. It will also depend on how people handle their materials--shaking or stirring to mix in the solids, and so on. You have had great luck and I salute you. Most people will complain about it being gummy and non-drying if they try to build it too fast. I am not a newbie to TruOil. I've been using it on various projects since the mid 1980s. I stand by my belief that slow and steady wins the race with this stuff.