Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:16 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:19 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm
Posts: 49
First name: Danny
Last Name: Gonzalez
City: NY
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 10021
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Trevor Gore wrote:
DannyG1 wrote:
i have a number of factory made guitars that have been giving me very expensive, yet ultimately ineffective disappointments for years....

You're on a slippery slope. Many years ago, I had a guitar that wouldn't play in tune on the high frets and clearly needed the saddle to be moved back. It was going to be touch and go as to whether the new saddle slot would fall into the bridge pin holes or not. So before I started cutting wood, I wrote a small program to work out where the new saddle slot should be, to get the thing in tune at the 12th fret and the open string. (As it happens, the shift required was about 3mm and I had just enough room). I then asked my self the question "If it plays in tune on the open string and the 12th fret, how in tune is it everywhere else"? That lead to the idea of nut compensation (which I'd never heard of at the time). To figure out whether the concept would really work, I built a guitar to prove it (or not). It worked, and the rest, as they say, is history.

One more thing, the best you can do is to get your guitars to play equal temperament accurately. Don't go looking for Just...


I have been reading the "catch 22' thread and what you're describing in it does sound keeP, I'm completely intimidated by actually putting myself to the task of measuring and making the necessary changes. I do get annoyed with all of my guitars intonation abilities at times but 'ok' will have to be good enough for now. At some point maybe I'll have you make a guitar for me.



These users thanked the author DannyG1 for the post: Trevor Gore (Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:08 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:17 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:13 pm
Posts: 832
Location: Durango CO
First name: Dave
Last Name: Farmer
City: Durango
State: CO
Jeez,
I think at this point Danny is getting a bit of a keel hauling.
There are other things that go into intonation besides saddle placement but if it's too far north, it's too far north. It sounds like that's at least part of the problem. If he has other instruments he's satisfied with, he's not just chafing at equal temperament.
Surely Someone here knows a competent luthier in New York to send Danny to.
Moving a saddle slot back is not a big buck operation. Much cheaper to fix all his guitars than the cost of tools to do it, but it's hardly a task I'd suggest for a novice.
Danny, do you have any experience in woodworking?



These users thanked the author david farmer for the post: DannyG1 (Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:17 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:36 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:40 pm
Posts: 763
Location: United States
David brings up a good point. I did not see it mentioned earlier. Do you have any instruments you are pleased with?

I just remembered, StewMac makes something called "the intonator." It's adjustable saddles like an electric for an acoustic guitar. It's only 75 bucks or so. Is not meant to replace using a saddle, but rather to experimentally find the best saddle locations for each string before cutting the slot. And it just sets on the bridge without modification to your guitar. You could use it diagnostically to see if moving the saddle would fix the problems you are hearing. It'd be a simple matter to cut a plug to temporarily fill the slot while using the jig.

I should add that I've only seen it in their catalog and have never held or used it. Might not work like I'm imagining. But's it's cheaper than getting the slot cutting tools, doing the work, and finding out you're still not happy.

_________________
Mike Lindstrom



These users thanked the author Mike Lindstrom for the post: DannyG1 (Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:25 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:36 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6977
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
https://www.google.com/search?q=perfect ... 0Xlv6h4vYM:

Mike ;)

I like the idea of that Intonator. But it seems a "one size fits all" solution that just so happens to not fit all. Consider slanted pins, or curved pins. All my pins are in an arc.



These users thanked the author Mike OMelia for the post (total 2): Lonnie J Barber (Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:35 pm) • Pmaj7 (Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:18 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:16 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:40 pm
Posts: 763
Location: United States
I've had the same thought which is why I don't have one. I slot my bridge pin holes. I've thought about just using pins in 1 and 6 and bracing the intonator against the two.

_________________
Mike Lindstrom


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:34 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:14 am
Posts: 982
Location: Shefford, Québec
First name: Tim
Last Name: Mullin
City: Shefford
State: QC
Zip/Postal Code: J2M 1R5
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
If you're keen on the Stewmac saddle slotting jig, I can sell you mine for a lower price. It's been used exactly once. Send me a PM and make me a reasonable offer and your location (to work out shipping).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



These users thanked the author Tim Mullin for the post: DannyG1 (Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:25 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:32 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm
Posts: 49
First name: Danny
Last Name: Gonzalez
City: NY
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 10021
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
"Re: Newly Built: fretted notes are all sharp...........nut adjustment?
Postby Brian Evans » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:50 pm

I don't agree with setting bridge position by simply measuring - unless you have experience with your exact setup, string gauge and action height so you are basically exactly duplicating a proven installation. I would do this, in this order - first capo at first fret and set the intonation at the 13th fret correctly using a temporary saddle on the first and sixth strings, using corrected action height. In other words, get the thing in tune on those two strings with bits of wood resting on top of the existing bridge. This will tell you two things - first, it will give you an idea where the new saddle needs to be, and you will be able to judge if a new bridge needs to be made, if you can fill and rout a new saddle slot, make some offset saddle, etc. Also, it will tell you if the fret board is right. If it plays in tune at the capo'd 13th fret, it should play in tune all up and down the fretboard if the frets are in the right place. Second, I would make a new nut and start the setup process - set nut action height perfectly, establish and install the new saddle, set action height to 1/16" high E and 3/32" low E as a starting point, and see what you have. In other words, prove what you have "can" work, then make it work.

Higher than standard action will make any instrument designed "normally" play out of tune and be impossible to set up. Ditto odd string gauges, higher or lower tuning than normal, etc. If you take an instrument designed for regular E tuning and tune the 6th string down to C, for example, you might need to even go so far as to change the scale length, the string gauge, the compensation amount, to get it to play in tune properly - hence a real justification for the fan-fret design."



These users thanked the author DannyG1 for the post: Lonnie J Barber (Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:37 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:37 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm
Posts: 49
First name: Danny
Last Name: Gonzalez
City: NY
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 10021
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Searching for interesting observations and fixes for the problems I'm experiencing led me to the MIMF where I found the post I just posted before this.
It's advice I plan to try, before reslotting. I'll cut a shallow, extra, 3/32nds saddle and place it on the bridge between the existing saddle and pins, intonate/carve it and see if it will work on the existing bridge/bridges before reslotting.

I'll see if I can get to this late tonight.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:20 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm
Posts: 49
First name: Danny
Last Name: Gonzalez
City: NY
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 10021
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
david farmer wrote:
Jeez,
I think at this point Danny is getting a bit of a keel hauling.
There are other things that go into intonation besides saddle placement but if it's too far north, it's too far north. It sounds like that's at least part of the problem. If he has other instruments he's satisfied with, he's not just chafing at equal temperament.
Surely Someone here knows a competent luthier in New York to send Danny to.
Moving a saddle slot back is not a big buck operation. Much cheaper to fix all his guitars than the cost of tools to do it, but it's hardly a task I'd suggest for a novice.
Danny, do you have any experience in woodworking?


Thanks for your kindness David. My experience as a woodworker is mixed. I have done many attempts well and many attempts not so well. I trust in my patience and my fear of doing poorly to keep me getting better.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:23 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm
Posts: 49
First name: Danny
Last Name: Gonzalez
City: NY
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 10021
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have considered buying the intonator tool but have put that urge aside for now as I think I can do similar things for little to no money spent. Thanks for bringing it up though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:12 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 2060
I've been abstaining from comment because this seems like it may be something if a can of worms, but here goes.

Before doing anything else, and if you want good advice from those with experience here, it would be helpful to have more detailed info on the issues you are experiencing.

First is of course is confirming that your expectations are reasonably set, and that you have some fair understanding of the limitations of equal temperament and of if the instrument overall. With so many instruments and the work of so many techs leaving you dissatisfied, from my distant perspective I have to weigh the probability of several instruments with the same problem, plus many professional techs whose attempts to correct it have failed, all falling on the same individual player - vs the probability that maybe the player is aiming for something unachievable. Either may be possible, but you can understand how from our perspective, the latter would seem more likely.

Nothing personal, just questions of standard procedure. Are you familiar with limitations of equal temperament, that intervals like major or minor 3rds and 6ths are always going to be a bit "out of tune"? What are the underlying problems that you are experiencing in playing these instruments? You're not trying to sweeten the tuning for one chord, then experiencing problems with another, or expecting an 11th fret note to sound perfect with an open string below, are you?

If this is not it, where exactly are problems most notable? Is it open chords in the first 3 frets, or upper fretted notes sounding off against open strings, upper closed chord progressions? Are the problems you are experiencing visible on a tuner, and if so what are the error trends in the 1-3 fret range, the 10-15 range, and the extreme upper? Are problems isolated to specific tones, like around the A or the G?

These are some bits of information that can be extremely valuable in helping to diagnose and troubleshoot, and to prevent chasing the wrong solution if there are problems. For example, the measurements you gave of estimated saddle offsets, if you could give us the error as currently observable with the string at open vs 12th, it would be quite simple to confirm or refine those proposed changes with some tuner readings.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.



These users thanked the author David Collins for the post (total 3): Johny (Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:38 pm) • kencierp (Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:27 am) • Clinchriver (Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:43 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:13 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm
Posts: 49
First name: Danny
Last Name: Gonzalez
City: NY
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 10021
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
David Collins wrote:
I've been abstaining from comment because this seems like it may be something if a can of worms, but here goes.

Before doing anything else, and if you want good advice from those with experience here, it would be helpful to have more detailed info on the issues you are experiencing.

First is of course is confirming that your expectations are reasonably set, and that you have some fair understanding of the limitations of equal temperament and of if the instrument overall. With so many instruments and the work of so many techs leaving you dissatisfied, from my distant perspective I have to weigh the probability of several instruments with the same problem, plus many professional techs whose attempts to correct it have failed, all falling on the same individual player - vs the probability that maybe the player is aiming for something unachievable. Either may be possible, but you can understand how from our perspective, the latter would seem more likely.

Nothing personal, just questions of standard procedure. Are you familiar with limitations of equal temperament, that intervals like major or minor 3rds and 6ths are always going to be a bit "out of tune"? What are the underlying problems that you are experiencing in playing these instruments? You're not trying to sweeten the tuning for one chord, then experiencing problems with another, or expecting an 11th fret note to sound perfect with an open string below, are you?

If this is not it, where exactly are problems most notable? Is it open chords in the first 3 frets, or upper fretted notes sounding off against open strings, upper closed chord progressions? Are the problems you are experiencing visible on a tuner, and if so what are the error trends in the 1-3 fret range, the 10-15 range, and the extreme upper? Are problems isolated to specific tones, like around the A or the G?

These are some bits of information that can be extremely valuable in helping to diagnose and troubleshoot, and to prevent chasing the wrong solution if there are problems. For example, the measurements you gave of estimated saddle offsets, if you could give us the error as currently observable with the string at open vs 12th, it would be quite simple to confirm or refine those proposed changes with some tuner readings.


I have to admit that I'm coming to the realisation that many, if not most of the people here have taken offense at my assertion that I've given up on trusting my guitar techs. I'm not sure what would make people feel better about that but I say it with little malice and lots of forgiveness.

I am just a musician and I'm not pretending to be as good as or better, than the people I've brought my guitars to in the past. I'm sure I'm not nearly as good as any of them actually but what I am is not the issue.

Since we've come to the issue of blame and recrimination , I think maybe we should consider the ramifications of fairness and honesty in discourse.
I have, instead of turning to an internet firestorm of blame, taken my $1709 guitar repair disappointment and am trying to turn it into a personal lesson in expectations. I feel no guilt in how I've phrased my displeasure. I am going to become proficient at fixing my own problems rather than trusting the assertions of others whom I 'should' trust, just because I'm expected to. I feel little need to couch my honest opinion. I don't know why my repair people have given me back guitars in a state that is less than acceptable, even for themselves to play I'd say.Maybe they though I wasn't talented enough to know the difference or maybe they were in the middle of a slough of work and marital problems.

I've studied threads and articles by the best of you on issues of intonation ok and off over the last two years. I don't pretend to be expert on any of it, rather I present myself as an amateur. I do know that cowboy chord runs of G,C and D will present differently than E,A and D, even on a well set up guitar. I understand that perfection is not a realistic expectation on a fretted instrument (even with a compensated nut). All of that is neither here nor there though.

I am only interested in taking the necessary steps to learn what I need to know to take complete reponsibility for my own expectations and not to prove that I've been wronged.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:57 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:40 pm
Posts: 763
Location: United States
What about this? Instead of routing a second slot, or making any significant investment in tools, superglue a second saddle to the back side of the first. Cut it short so it can still be flush to the top but offset high so the original saddle would still seat in the slot. That would give you a lot more real estate to intonate the saddle. It would let you experiment reversibly and inexpensively. I wouldn't do it as a repair for a customer, but for my living room guitar, I bet it would end up staying that way for a long time.

_________________
Mike Lindstrom


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:08 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:31 am
Posts: 904
Location: Candler, NC United States
I don't thing David is taking offense to your statement, but rather trying to help you by getting more specific information from you regarding the nature of the problem you're experiencing. He (and I) do this sort of thing every day, with an very, very high rate of success. I'm curious to know what gauge string you use, which tunings you most commonly use, the condition of the frets on the problem guitars, the amount of relief in the neck at the 8th fret, as well as the height of the frets and your technique regarding the strength of your grip. These questions don't reflect our offense, but rather our wanting to help you by fully understanding your specific situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com



These users thanked the author Ken Jones for the post: David Collins (Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:46 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:10 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 1701
First name: John
Last Name: Parchem
City: Seattle
State: Wa
Zip/Postal Code: 98177
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
David Collins wrote:


... Before doing anything else, and if you want good advice from those with experience here, it would be helpful to have more detailed info on the issues you are experiencing. ... if you could give us the error as currently observable with the string at open vs 12th, it would be quite simple to confirm or refine those proposed changes with some tuner readings.


This is a simple measurement to make. As David says it will tell if you need to adjust the saddle. In terms of the perceived tone of these posts you need to be careful, you came to a luthier forum with the "answer" and have seemed dismissive of advise or questions about your conclusion and have not really answered any of the simple measurement questions anyone asked.

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com



These users thanked the author johnparchem for the post: kencierp (Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:26 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:40 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 2060
I'm not looking to place blame or dismiss legitimacy of a concern - trust me, I understand what it's like to go to 4 doctors who think a problem is "all in your head", to the point everyone thinks it's just you being oversensitive, until you find one actually willing to do an MRI and find "oh yeah, I guess this is a real problem."

Still, if it smells like crap wherever you go, one has to at least ask to check your shoes before scouring the grounds. So let's jump and say okay, we've checked, shoes are clean, maybe there really is dog crap all over this place. The goal now is to find it, without jumping straight in to resurfacing the whole yard.

This is where specifics can be very handy in recommending a more specific solution. Let's start with cents error at the 12th, whether or not sharpening is exaggerated at the first few frets, how those measurements were observed, string gauge and tuning, and perhaps a bit of detail on playing style, like if you have a heavy left hand grip or not. This info will provide much more useful insight than the saddlematic observations, which are a limited approximation that I would hesitate to use as a final comprehensive appraisal.

For the record, I've moved two saddle slots on acoustic guitars just this week alone, so this is certainly a problem that can happen, and a solution I'm not at all averse to. There are just a lot of factors that need to be weighed in this choice to determine if it's the best avenue toward solution, or if you may be better served by addressing issues up at the nut, or perhaps both ends.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.



These users thanked the author David Collins for the post (total 3): Clinchriver (Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:23 pm) • kencierp (Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:32 pm) • Ken Jones (Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:03 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:33 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 12:45 pm
Posts: 644
First name: Lonnie
Last Name: Barber
City: Manchester
State: Tennessee
Zip/Postal Code: 37355
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I play a guitar very softly. I very seldom have any intonation problems. If you play heavy handedly I'm sure you would experience these problems. Seeing as how all your guitars have this problem maybe it's your attack could be too violent. Just saying .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:43 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:35 pm
Posts: 2951
Location: United States
First name: Joe
Last Name: Beaver
City: Lake Forest
State: California
Focus: Build
Lonnie Said, "I play a guitar very softly."

What is it that someone use to say? 'Tickle your guitar every day and it'll tickle you back'

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:46 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12971
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Joe Beaver wrote:
Lonnie Said, "I play a guitar very softly."

What is it that someone use to say? 'Tickle your guitar every day and it'll tickle you back'


That was John How's signature line on the OLF, likely still is he just hasn't posted in a while.

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:52 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:35 pm
Posts: 2951
Location: United States
First name: Joe
Last Name: Beaver
City: Lake Forest
State: California
Focus: Build
Hesh, I believe you are right. Good memory!!!

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust



These users thanked the author Joe Beaver for the post: Hesh (Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:43 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:39 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:00 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Australia
To use a medical analogy, you need to diagnose the problem before undertaking surgery.

The saddlematic is a measuring tool to aid in bridge placement not a diagnostic tool. It is completely dependant on the offsets you set it to.

Where are you experiencing problems, is it with open position chords or further up the board?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:52 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm
Posts: 49
First name: Danny
Last Name: Gonzalez
City: NY
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 10021
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I took a hard look at my guitars through all of the concerns many of you have posted and got to work on learning, despite the Saddlematics conclusion, whether any of the guitars had poorly cut nut slots and whether that might lead to a fix. Specifically, I read, and watched videos, for quite a long bit.

Two out of the three patients are slotted well (a thin shop ruler placed within the slots rests on the first few fret tops , almost level, when I set the relief to a business card on the 7th.

On the Guild though, I could make an improvement (it seemed the slots weren't ramping at a shallow.enough angle and I worked them to a better balance, mostly with the ruler itself). With that fix I was able wasgesharpnessintonation problems at the first three frets. I'm still sharp on the low.E string by 4-6 cents at the saddle, but there's no more room to keep cutting.
One measurement that surprised me is that the bottom of the low E is 3/8ths off the board at the bridge and I do not have a lot of saddle showing.

All in all its not a great result but the one guitar is playable now. Thank you all for helping me achieve that.

I've decided, because of the result with the Guild, to take the other guitars in and ask my tech, point blank, whether routing the slot wider is an idea he'd recommend and/or entertain. I'll see where I end up after that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:22 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm
Posts: 49
First name: Danny
Last Name: Gonzalez
City: NY
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 10021
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
jeffhigh wrote:
To use a medical analogy, you need to diagnose the problem before undertaking surgery.

The saddlematic is a measuring tool to aid in bridge placement not a diagnostic tool. It is completely dependant on the offsets you set it to.

Where are you experiencing problems, is it with open position chords or further up the board?


I've been having most of my troubles trying to fret notes up the board and matching the fretted note against open strings. A typical problem is the A string fretted at the 10th against an open G. Also troubles with a capo on the third, which causes all sorts of tuning trouble. Capo on the 5 and 6th would play very sharp.

To another voiced concern, I do not have a 'death grip' fretting hand and I fret right against the fret as I should. I did however, take a video lesson on fretting and fingerpicking more lightly , just to be sure and though it hasn't changed my intonation troubles much, I did find it very helpful in terms of playing with more expression (and better hand comfort), so thank you for helping me realise something about better playing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:22 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:31 am
Posts: 904
Location: Candler, NC United States
When I hear of intonation issues and a capo in the same conversation, a red flag goes up. I often explain to folks that several factors can cause capos to pull strings sharp -- mismatched radii between capo and fretboard (Thalia capos come with two different sets of common radii), too much compression of the capo (think Kysers), fret height, and fret condition. Guilds have either a 9.5" or 12" radius, so it could be that your capo is a 16" radius, causing the inner strings to be pulled sharper than the outer strings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com



These users thanked the author Ken Jones for the post: DannyG1 (Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:24 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:01 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:00 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Australia
You need to use a tuner with cents reading to check your intonation. and do not expect capo'd notes to be consistent.
Set open strings accurately with the tuner, not by ear, then check and write down the deviations from in tune at the 1st and 12th frets fretting with normal pressure
This will tell you if you have a problem at the nut or saddle.
All assuming the guitar relief and action is set up properly, intonation is the last thing to be checked.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Dan Miller and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com