Official Luthiers Forum!

Good to see you here Shane and thanks for your help as well my friend!!

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Hi Hesh,
You posted helpful comments on my early builds over on Mario's forum and I sincerely hope that you manage to overcome this setback. I myself do not use Facebook or Facebook like social media but I will forward the link to my friends that do.
Kind Regards
Peter

Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Breakstone...done! I'll see who is in the shop this week...unfortunately, Facebook's rating system is a bit like my parent's 'Angel Point' system - it takes an awful lot of 5 star reviews to undo a single 1 star rating. Trying to coordinate a response from the group here is like herding kittens, but with two down and another 3-4 to go this weekend, we hope to support you gentlemen.

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We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

Review done. Amazing how many crazies demand respect but don't show any for others.

Brent

Hesh and Dave--

I wish I could be a direct help, but I stay away from Facebook for this very reason, so I can't post a positive review for you. I thankfully have a business (a particular niche of the practice of law) that does not absolutely require a social media presence. In fact, having such a presence in my line of work actually creates problems instead of growing business.

I will say this as a general thought for you going forward: I try to limit my political discussions to in-person, face to face, encounters. That way, my comments do not get forwarded onto the types of online thugs who are haunting you. Don't misunderstand: I am of the same political bent as you are (enough said about that in this apolitical forum). But on all points along the political spectrum, you will have folks who disagree with you, and I find it a lot easier to deal with that conflict when the other person and I know each other's names, eat together, work together, worship together, or are otherwise required to spend time together in the future. That tends to soften the tone. Online stuff gets ugly fast, due to the perceived (and often real) anonymity it provides folks. We can too easily dehumanize each other online, and the result can be something like the unfair targeting of a small business that does great work. Or worse. Kids commit suicide over online bullying.

So, I'm not recommending that you "clam up" about your politics. I'm recommending that you make it personal. The internet just gives us all more opportunities to stay in our bubbles and only consume the information that fits our respective views of the world. Online political conflict hardly ever changes hearts and minds, but in-person communication might have that chance.

Sorry to preach. You did nothing wrong in my book, and certainly did nothing to warrant what happened. But what happened is not entirely unpredictable. If I had a small business that needed the fickle users of Facebook to stay healthy, I would stay the heck away from controversy online, which starts with not allowing controversial things attributable to me to wind up online. It is a hard and unfair truth, but it is what it is.

Hi Don:

Many thanks to you my friend for some very sage advice. I didn't take your post as preaching at all but as a very decent man who speaks from experience taking the time and going to the effort to help Dave and I out. Thank You!

I also completely agree with your advice and will be personally trying hard in the future to confine politics to in person interaction or not at all.

We share a building with landlords who are two of the top attorneys in the state with one of them having won a record judgement in Michigan history and the other attorney having successfully prosecuted illegal music streaming and won. They are great guys. Their practice is built around social justice issues.

On our second floor is the head of the Michigan ACLU and also an attorney as well as another great guy! We all got together over this since I wanted them to know that some caution might be warranted because of the threats we are receiving. These guys were upbeat and joking with us that if anyone ever attacked this building everyone of us would think that we each brought it our way..... Needless to say we all could benefit from some boring going forward.

Thanks again Don you advice is very much appreciated!

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Without putting too fine a point on it, I remind you that this whole thing started because Dave disrespected the president....

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

It seems to me, Mr. Pile, that ANY political opinion expressed - where one of support or of condemnation for any political figure or group - would have resulted in a pile-on by those seeking to demonstrate either their displeasure or unbridled enthusiasm. The fault I see is not one of choosing which person or faction to support or vilify, but rather of expressing that view on a business web site or social media business page, or - indeed - any site where that behavior ties what should be a personal issue for Mr. Breakstone to his business, and thus, his business partners.

In summary, it's not what was said - it's where it was said...which is exactly the opposite of what gets most gentlemen in hot water.

Beyond that, I would say that we are both perilously close to engaging in a proscribed behavior here on the OLF - that of discussing politics - and should gingerly back away from the edge least we fall victim to our own version of Mr. Breakstone's unfortunate series of events.

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We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

Thanks Woodie, was thinking much the same thing but hesitated to post due to the politics "thang"

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Thanks Chris and Woody! Dave and I want to avoid politics..... let's just keep this as a request for honest reviews if we have ever helped or interacted with folks here.

Thanks my friends.

Besides.... I had to work in this this morning...... oh the horror.....

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Hesh;
I did a review on facebook yesterday.
Mike
Best to yas!

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Mike Collins

Thanks Mike!!!

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Wisdom for our time Don. Thanks.

Like so many technological inventions in human history, the internet has thrown social order up in the air like confetti. Hopefully we will assemble the pieces into a workable system before we all kill each another.

I'm heartened by the respect and restraint shown in this discussion. The absolute best part is, I'll forever see the indulgence or restraint of political flame throwing in terms of Woodi G's perfect "peeing in the ocean vignette". Forever in your debt woodi G!

Review done!

Hesh, I so much appreciate the help I've received from you and David,both from your posts and the input from other people they have stimulated. I left you a Facebook review, and was happy to see many others have as well.

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

It's amazing how far one can go without being insulting or denigrating with one's opinion. I suppose this thread is a reminder, that how one expresses one's opinions makes all the world of difference to the results.

Andy

I sail on a tall ship and we have had Yeungling in the kegger for 20+ years - that is, until last October when the president of the company expressed his political opinion. Now there are approximately 55-60 of his patrons who are former patrons.

I have to agree with those that keep any (any) political banter away from the business interests. That said, you have have helped me enough that I have left a comment.

Ed

No great loss, more beer for me and my buds

Actually, almost no beer for you or your buds. Why? This is quite subtle - one of the higher applications of Maritime Beer Math. Let me work through the proof of it:

1 half barrel keg = 15.5 gallons = 124 pints

It can be shown that...

124 pints / 28 sailors (all hoping to be pleasantly inebriated within a reasonable period of time, but still more-or-less functional in the AM when anchors are to be aweigh) = 4.43 pints per sailor

Why the seemingly odd 0.43 pints/sailor? There is lore unreliably reported to me that salted sailors spill just under 11% of any beverage into the sea to appease the jealous god of open waters, whilst fresh water sailors are simply sloppy drunks with uncertain balance.

Unfortunately, as Mr. Minch alluded to, loose lips sink ships, or at least dramatically decrease the donations from generous patrons, resulting in the following deteriorating situation:

1 inopportune utterance broadly disseminated - 1/2 of a charitable organization's patrons and their contributions = loss of 1 half barrel keg per vessel supported by voluntary donations

Thus...

28 sailors with fully emptied pockets = $3.17 in loose change

Why $3.17? All salt water sailors carry at least some coinage for the same reason they need that extra 0.43 pints of beer - the oceans have a toll system imposed by both superstition and experience.

And...

$3.17 in loose change / $2.99 per 7-11 tall boy = 24 ounces of warm malt liquor + three cents left to get out of the port with just a three day gale with which to deal

Therefore, it can be shown that...

0.86 ounces of beer per crew member is far less than the 71 ounces of beer to be had from the deep pockets of generous patrons prior to the asinine comments of the organization's president.

In other words, far and away less beer for you and your buds. I shall leave it to Mr. Minch - a mariner of high repute with direct knowledge of the maths at play here - to confirm the derivation offered above.

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We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

Hi Hesh,

You have always shared your knowledge freely on this forum and made it fun as well.

I don't post that much (but lurk a lot) and like you have been kicking around this forum for 12 years!

So, I have read many of your posts...

I have had a love/hate relationship with facebook myself.........

I wrote a " review" and gave you 5 stars. I hope it helps!

I did what I could to help out as well. good luck out there.

Just wanted to convey a very heartfelt and sincere thanks to everyone who helped us out. Very much appreciated and it did help a great deal as well.

We still are not whole again with the organic five star FaceBook rating that we had before this happened but we are in far better shape because of everyone's help.

Many thanks folks, you guys (men and women) are great!!!

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Ann Arbor Guitars