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| A strings keep breaking http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=49201 |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A strings keep breaking |
I have 3 classical guitars, all stored in the same room, same humidity level, and all have broken A strings. All 3 strings broke at the saddle. I have checked the saddles over and over and can't find any sharp edge or rough spot and have sanded just to be sure. 2 of the strings are D'Addario Pro-Arte normal tension and 1 is the same string but hard tension. They aren't breaking while I'm playing. I just find them broken. Not the first time and not all at the same time. Always the A string. WHY?!? What am I missing? Wendy |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
How strange. Also check for a sharp edge on the hole in the bridge. But that would be a heck of a coincidence if they all have it on just that string. Did you buy the strings in bulk? Another possibility is a bad batch, but seems pretty unlikely since there are different gauges involved. Any chance you could have a mouse who thinks A strings are just the right size to chew on?  I really can't think of anything else.
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
If all were the same exact strings and you bought them together I would say bad shipment but that doesn't seem to be the case. Plus the A is an unlikely one to break, usually a b or a high e I've got nothing else |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Does this always happen on April 1? |
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| Author: | Dave m2 [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
I have also had A strings break on guitars which weren't being played. On one I did find a little sharp edge on the front of the saddle. The others I never really pinned it down, but I think it is commonly something in the shaping of the saddle - maybe the back slope is not quite right...? Dave |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Picture of the saddle and your tying method would be helpful |
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| Author: | Imbler [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
If your A string is broken, I think what you are missing is your A string. Sorry! couldn't resist! Anyway, I've had that happen on stored, unplayed guitars, and it does always seem to be the A string. Perhaps some design element makes it the first to go, Unlike a previous poster (who I'm not doubting his personal experience), I've -never- had a high b or e break. For me it is always a wound string, and reflecting back, I believe it has always been the A. I have 6 classicals loitering around my house  Mike |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Mark the string where it's tied with a sharpie, may give you a clue as to where exactly the string breaks if it happens again so you know where to look for the problem. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Thanks for all the answers. So far, I am still baffled, but at least have some ideas. Good idea Colin about marking the new string so I can tell more exactly where it breaks. I'm 90% sure it is breaking at the saddle, not where it is tied. I'm sure I remember having to untie the remainder from the tie block. Maybe you are right Mike, maybe it is a design element that makes the A the first one to go. Maybe I should try another brand of string just out of curiosity. But on at least one of the guitars the strings were fairly new. The only thing I do know for sure is that it seems to only happen with guitars that I am not playing. The one that I play regularly has not broken and it has the same strings on it. It is also my most recent one and I went to a wider saddle that I shaped differently. After reading your answers I think I will try reshaping the 3 saddles... if the A string is the weakest, then the others may just be taking longer to break. Mark the new A strings with a sharpie. On 1 guitar, try a different brand of A string. Thanks, Wendy |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Interesting problem! Usually it's the D string that breaks. The weakest string on a classical guitar. Always breaks when the guitar is sitting, usually alone! I'd say that there is definitely an issue with the saddle peak or the edge of the tie block hole where the string breaks up to the saddle. When the string stretches through the hole it's hard to tell where the break occurred when slack. To counteract this I chamfer the edges of the tie holes on my guitars with a burr in a hand held pin vise. It doesn't take much to break the sharp edge of the hole. Did you notice any deformation of the string at the saddle? Sometimes you can see if the sharpness of the saddle is separating the windings too much at the peak of the saddle. This is a good indicator that there might be a break there. It's easy to see. Is this a 6 hole or a 12 or 18 hole bridge? |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
The fact that the A string is breaking on three different guitars points to something in common among the three guitars. - The strings: All are D'Addario Pro-Arte, but you've had two different versions break, so the strings themselves seem unlikely. I looked at the D'Addario string tension chart which shows that there are three types of Pro-Arte sets that have normal and hard tension string sets. It is interesting that the A string has the highest tension of the wound strings in 5 of the 6 strings sets. - The saddle: I'm assuming you made all three saddles so that's a common factor, but you've checked those thoroughly. - The bridge: Did you make the three bridges? Are they all the same, especially the tie block? Maybe they share a common characteristic such as the tie block hole as Waddy mentioned. How steep are the break angles on the saddles of the three guitars? - The tie method: Presumably, the strings were put on all the guitars by you. What tie method do you use? - The player: Are you the sole player? Is there anything about your technique or song repertoire that puts more stress on the A string, especially considering it is the highest tension wound string? |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Waddy, I did not notice any deformation of the string at the saddle peak, but I have seen it in the past on other instruments. Honestly I was not paying attention, since I was not playing them. Once a week I open cases and fill humidifiers. That is when I discovered them, each at a different time. I am going to try your method of chamfering the edges of the tie block hole, which I had not thought of but makes perfect sense. And, if as Jay says, the A string is at the highest tension, maybe the edge of the hole would be enough to cause it to fail first. These are 6 hole bridges. I'm hoping next time to try 12 hole...not yet brave enough to drill 18 holes. Jay, yes, I made all 3 saddles and bridges. That is interesting that the A string has the highest tension. My break angle may be high on 1 of them, but not all of them. These are 6 hole bridges and I am using the old fashioned tie method. I think Waddy may have the right idea about the holes needing to be chamfered. As far as playing... these are guitars that are, as Mike said, "loitering at my house". So not really being played. Hopefully next weekend I will have time to put some of these solutions to the test. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Quote: I think Waddy may have the right idea about the holes needing to be chamfered. Agreed -- plus tie down loop position. |
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| Author: | Michael [ Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
I am with Waddy. I own 2 music stores and have been selling strings for 40 years. In my experience, the D or #4 string breaks more often than the others. It is the thinnest of the 3 wound nylon strings. The A string is next then the first E string. Nylon #3 never breaks. For steel/bronze acoustic strings it is the #1 E string that breaks first followed by the #3 G string (again, the thinnest of the wound strings). A close-up picture of your bridges might help solve this puzzle I think. Do you ever use alternate tunings? Michael |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
I didn't get a chance to do more than look at my guitars this weekend, but I got a good look at the only one that I had not removed the broken string from. On very close look it seemed pretty likely that the break was exactly where the string comes out of the hole in the tieblock on the saddle side. I am going to chamfer all the holes and put new strings on and see what happens. Thank you Waddy and Dennis. Why always the A string is still a complete mystery. |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
You might also try making minor changes in the way you tie the knot. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Perhaps someone would post pictures of alternative ways to tie the strings on a 6 hole bridge? Waddy, what shape and size of burr are you using to chamfer the holes? |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
It's a little pointy thing I bought for a Dremel. I put it in a pin vise though and do it by hand. It's small - probably 60" 1/8 to 3/16 size I suppose. Most likely 3/16 as I think about it. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
I thread some abrasive chord through the holes and basically sand off the edge of top of the holes where the strings break. Super simple just takes a few back and forths. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Thanks, have a pin vise and got a little pointy burr. I think John's idea of abrasive cord is perfect. I didn't know they made abrasive cord that small. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Mitchell Abrasives has really thin cord. I use Mitchell Abrasives 54 Round Abrasive Cord, Aluminum Oxide 180 Grit .030". A slightly thicker one would probably be better. I was breaking the high string on a ukulele when I used the cord to break the edge. |
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| Author: | George L [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Abrasive cord is handy in many ways. There are possibly less expensive options out there, but at least one of our fine sponsors carries a selection of various sizes: http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Su ... _Cord.html I hope you get this figured out soon, Wendy! |
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| Author: | Dave Baley [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Do you use some sort of fixture to drill the holes such that the a string hole would always be slightly different angle or depth than the others? |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Dave, no, they are all drilled with the bridge held by the same fixture at the exact same angle, unfortunately. Thank you both John and George for the information on abrasive cords. Definitely will be getting some soon. |
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| Author: | William Bustard [ Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A strings keep breaking |
Try tuning them a semi-tone down and see if it still happens-sound bizarre for sure...maybe reverse your strings before putting them on, using what you normally put at the head at the bridge. Curious problem. shot in the dark but Is there anyway the tuner your using is different than conncert pitch? I had once and I didnt notice it had a variable "A" it was adjustable, fortunatley mine went flat and Im so tone deaf didnt notice for quite awhile. |
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