Official Luthiers Forum!

I have been looking at Chinese made truss rods on Aliexpress and they seem rather inexpensive. Has anyone had any experience using these rods? I would appreciate any feedback on this. Understandably, a truss rod is not a place where you want to compromise when building a guitar.

_________________
Under Compensated Nut!

The design of the import rod is fine -- the reputation of Chinese manufacturing quality control leans toward poor. If you install the 1 in ? that has a weld failure is that worth a few bucks initial savings. I really think you know the answer to your OP.

We use Martin factory rods -- single and two-way, I have not heard of a failure, which makes sense since Martin has no desire to mess with warranty issues.

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Yup,

Once you have had a Chinese made rod snap a weld on a brand new guitar just about to go out you realize that paying a little more for a well made device is worth every penny.

I use the Blanchard rod but have looked at and taken apart the Martin two way rod and it looks great. I'd certainly use it with no concerns.

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Has anyone had experience with the Chinese rods? I know in the past people have had issues with rods from various vendors - were they sourced from China?

you should have tested it properly before fitting?

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

30-40 bucks is not too much to spend on a Blanchard. I've tried all kinds and once you have to get one out, 40 bucks is cheap for a rod that works. I'd rather buy a good T/R and use mediocre tuners than have Waverly's and a 10 buck T/R.

I've used around 20 on electrics.
No problems so far.
$6 a pop, 2-day free shipping from Amazon.

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Martin. If they're good enough for a company that turns out thousands of serious guitars, they're good enough for me.

Steve

I did.

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Yeah, they work great. Until you get the one that doesn't!

_________________
Pat

there are 2 basic designs
if you have welding or silver solder on the threaded rod toss them . if there is a mechanical cylinder that is welded to a bar that is a design like martin they are reliable.
so we can call one the Martin style and the other a twist off rod .
The ones I had that snapped were the Stew Mac Hot rod
there was another 2 way design that was to be high end it also snapped
Martin design for me only.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John or others: Do you have pictures to explain the two styles? I know it is obvious to you, but I'm not quite sure what to look out for,
thanks, Mike

I can't post pictures I don't know why but the software on this forum never lets me post.
The concept is simple if you see a threaded rod and they attach the active nut to that they are junk
this is a god picture of a proper design

http://www.bitterrootguitars.com/Produc ... hgodSTcMFw

here is one I wouldn't use
http://www.bitterrootguitars.com/Produc ... hgodMRECyA

when you look at the 2 designs you can see how the business end is welded. The weld on the threads is a no no I had used a few in my early days , not from bitteroot but the hot rod and there was one LMI had all failed. I use Martin rods and get them from the same maker.

thi

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Thanks John, I see what you are saying now,
Mike

Here's the Martin two-way rod very clever design much more secure weld arrangement:

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

John - I'm trying to understand why the design of the first truss rod is better than the second one. I take your post to mean that the nut welded to the end of the threaded rod is a weak point in the second rod, but in the first rod isn't the cylinder just a threaded housing covering the end of the the threaded rod and wouldn't that threaded rod end also have a hex fitting welded to it? Maybe I don't understand the design of the second rod.

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

no it doesn't
look at the open martin rod Ken just posted that is the key there is no weld on the threaded rod.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I don't think it's that the weld is on the threads as much as the welds are done on the wrong side of the head to allow for the use of an allen wrench. If it was a straight hex head and the weld was on the far end it would be fine. The rods shown in the picture not only is the weld shown in an unsupported overhang but it is tabbed on in two locations, or worse just the one. Silver solder on that design should work just fine as it doesn't take as much heat and will flow through the whole head. Doesn't really look like any of those welds have good penetration.
FWIW I don't use that style rod but prefer the Benedetto style. Simple and lighter, but it's a whole different concept from the styles you are showing.

How does the hex head in the Martin rod Ken posted drive the threaded rod? Does the end of the threaded rod have a male hex end (or something like that) that fits into the end of the hex head you can't see inside the cylinder so that there's no weld required?

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

I agree with you Jay. I think there is more than meets the eye.

My experience with China made stuff like this is that while the "average" quality may be fine enough - there is a lot of fallout that gets shipped. It reminds me very much of USA huge factory quality prior to the 1990's. And you dont know what you have till it fails or doesnt.

I think the root of it is that these things are made in nameless huge factories full of unskilled labor in China. By and large - in the USA and Europe, these things are made in small boutique type shops or one man shop sort of places. Those guys (like Mark Blanchard) have a reputation thats easy to ruin. A few bad units getting out and being blown up on the forum would hurt his business in a major way..

I asked above how the adjustment nut in truss rods in which the nut is housed inside a cylinder drives the threaded rod if the nut is not welded to the end of the threaded rod. I'm interested in knowing the answer because if welding the nut to the threaded rod is a no-no and a potential point of failure, I'm open to switching to a type of truss rod in which the nut is not welded to the threaded rod. Since I don't have x-ray vision that allows me to see what's inside the housing on that type of truss rod and how it works (even more so in photos of truss rods), I emailed StewMac and asked them about the two-way truss rod they sell that's similar to the first one that John provided a link to above.

The StewMac rod: http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Truss_Rods/Low-profile_2-way_Truss_Rod.html

The answer I got back is that on the StewMac rod the adjustment nut inside the cylinder housing is in fact welded to the end of the threaded rod. Since their rod has the same potential point of failure as the rods I use now, there's no point in switching to that design based on that potential deficiency. Given that the nut is welded on in the StewMac truss rod, how is one to know that it isn't also true for other truss rods of the same or similar design?

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

The advantage would be in the supported and enclosed overhang past the threaded block.

I can see how the housing would provide support against lateral loads, but how much lateral load does that part of a truss rod ever see in an acoustic guitar with access through the sound hole? I would say little to none. It seems that the main stress on the weld would be twisting stress from adjusting the rod and I don't see how the housing would help with that.

I asked the StewMac person what the function of the housing is and got this somewhat puzzling reply:
"The sleeve helps the rod stay snug in the channel to prevent any rattling. Since the rods push against each other when being adjusted the sleeves allow a smoother movement than metal to metal contact." Not sure he understood the question.

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

The Martin rod is fairly complex in that the part that turns has a hex socket machined in on end, is threaded at the other end plus has a thrust collar stop with brass bearings -- correct more than meets the eye.

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/