Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:20 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:09 pm 
Offline
OLF Sponsor
OLF Sponsor

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:26 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Craig, Alaska
First name: Brent
Last Name: Cole Sr
City: Craig
State: Alaska
Zip/Postal Code: 99921
Country: USofA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Can anyone identify this guitar and who the luthier is/was that built it? The Picture taken at the 1999 GAL symposium in Tacoma Wa.. While we are at it, lets have a discussion about soundboard quality. I think this is a stunningly beautiful instrument. The low grade top by industry standards according to the aesthetics of color, has been used, and complimented with a rosette, to create this beauty. This perfectly VG cut booklet, as evidenced by the strong medularies from a 400+/- yr old, old growth Sitka Spruce tree with it's natural color is a quality soundboard. And I believe this to be a quality instrument.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:25 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:51 pm
Posts: 1201
First name: Chris
Last Name: Ensor
City: Springfield
State: Missouri
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
My first instinct says Steve Kinnard. I might be way off....

_________________
ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:07 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 995
Location: United States
City: Tyler
State: Texas
Yep, concur. I think Chris nailed it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:11 pm 
Offline
OLF Sponsor
OLF Sponsor

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:26 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Craig, Alaska
First name: Brent
Last Name: Cole Sr
City: Craig
State: Alaska
Zip/Postal Code: 99921
Country: USofA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Well I wonder, does Steve hang out around these parts and gonna chime in and take claim?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:05 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am
Posts: 3289
First name: Brad
Last Name: Combs
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
http://www.stephenkinnaird.com/rosettegallery.html

I think this guitar is the third in the list.

"Spalted Boxelder bordered with black / white lines in Engelmann Spruce"

From the site:

Contact Us

By Mail
Stephen Kinnaird
485 County Rd 630
Nacogdoches, TX 75964

By Phone
936-560-5342

By Email
info@stephenkinnaird.com

The internet is such a great thing. :)

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:23 pm 
Offline
OLF Sponsor
OLF Sponsor

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:26 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Craig, Alaska
First name: Brent
Last Name: Cole Sr
City: Craig
State: Alaska
Zip/Postal Code: 99921
Country: USofA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Well Steve, thank you for chiming in! The rosette certainly compliments the soundboard. I would like to know more about the soundboard and with the help of this instrument change how soundboard quality is defined. We are also working on some other parameters of criteria as well. All this to get better utilization of the diminishing ancient temperate old growth rainforest of SE Alaska.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:26 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am
Posts: 3289
First name: Brad
Last Name: Combs
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
To be clear... I'm just a data miner and sent you that info so you could contact him directly. :)

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:38 pm 
Offline
OLF Sponsor
OLF Sponsor

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:26 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Craig, Alaska
First name: Brent
Last Name: Cole Sr
City: Craig
State: Alaska
Zip/Postal Code: 99921
Country: USofA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
bcombs510 wrote:
To be clear... I'm just a data miner and sent you that info so you could contact him directly. :)

Sure enough, I should look at those things before writing stupid crap. oops_sign



These users thanked the author Alaska Splty Woods for the post: Colin North (Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:43 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:20 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5924
Good luck trying to change people's perceptions of what makes a first quality top.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:53 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6977
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I love that top


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:31 pm 
Offline
OLF Sponsor
OLF Sponsor

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:26 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Craig, Alaska
First name: Brent
Last Name: Cole Sr
City: Craig
State: Alaska
Zip/Postal Code: 99921
Country: USofA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Clay S. wrote:
Good luck trying to change people's perceptions of what makes a first quality top.

Clay, It will happen anyway, whether I am able to help or not. I would hope the changes will happen before the last old growth Sitka spruce tree is cut, rather than later. Just as Red Spruce criteria of quality has loosened, so will Sitka- Old Growth Sitka. Because there is no soundboard producible fiber in 95 yr rotation managed temperate Rain Forest.

I have been involved with a request from the Local Forest Ranger, who is the chief of the 2 districts of the Tongass on Prince of Wales Island. He came to a meeting to ask for local input to the Tongass Land Management Plan for the next 15 yrs. which phases out Old Growth Timber harvest into a young growth timber harvest. I volunteered because there was nobody else from wood products or timber industry at the table. It's a huge project and we have been meeting one day Each month for the last year. Each meeting eats up a whole day from 8AM-4:30PM.
What I've learned is the current inventory of harvest-able Old Growth timber on POW Island and vicinity is aprox. 400MMBF[Thgat's 400 Million Board Feet]. The one mill here that has the pockets to build roads and get a helicopter here to do any logging needs 22MMBF to meet it's production needs. Plus they provide 200+ jobs directly and indirectly, which equates to a population the size of the village of Klawock. The rest of the small operators require another 8MMbf/yr. We at ASW are not harvesters of green timber, but rather the salvage. So our needs of under 100mbf is small, the other operators do use green timber. Even so, without the other operators, there is no access or machinery for us to get the salvage. We are quite a family of timber people here. The Tongass is 60% hemlock and only 20% Sitka. Of coarse only a small percentage of that sitka is suitable for soundboard production. Anyway volume of harvest needed to sustain our small island timber economy is 30mmbf. That means in 13 yrs all remaining Harvest-able and accessible old growth timber will be gone. The young growth will not be adequate to sustain any significant timber industry for at least another 20+ yrs. I want to see reasonable harvest and use. I would like to see slow down and more value added products coming from our forest, rather than just semi-milled products. There are log breakdown mills more than finished wood product type mills.
We started out as log breakdown outfit, breaking log into re-sawable block sold to soundboard producers in Lower 48, Canada, Asia, and Europe. But we don't do that anymore, and produces end-user product from all our fiber.
It irks me, the willingness to let go to waste, this extremely limited, important and valuable resource, simply because it does not meet someones expectations of pretty, Especially when sound is the target. And it not just not the 500 yr old trees either. Its a whole eco-stystem that took more than 1000 yrs to develop. And it's an eco-system that produces the slow growing trees and fine grained fiber that fast growing tree farms just cannot do, let alone support all the other species of life dependent on the old growth habitat. So yes, perception of quality will change. I like what Bryan Galloup is doing with his dynamic sound profiling, and we want to implement his system to help the change happen. I really would like for my grand-kids and great grand-kids to be able to harvest some old growth sitka to make products for your grand-kids and great grand-kids to make acoustic instruments with.



These users thanked the author Alaska Splty Woods for the post (total 3): david farmer (Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:25 pm) • JSDenvir (Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:21 pm) • Durero (Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:15 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:57 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:35 pm
Posts: 2951
Location: United States
First name: Joe
Last Name: Beaver
City: Lake Forest
State: California
Focus: Build
The bridge, rosette, and label all pretty much say Steve Kinnard. I think I can see TEXAS through the soundhole

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:24 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:45 pm
Posts: 4337
Location: United States
I can speak for the builder and say *hey*...I think I did that...

One of the freedoms we have as builders--when we get the chance to build what we'd like--is to use material like this. When the red-striped Ambrosia maple back and sides were chosen for the body, this top was a no-brainer. Yes that's right: thanks to lacquer fumes I have no brain.
Now personally, I love the look. And it sounded just fine.
Oh, by the way, it is Engelmann spruce for the record.

Thanks,

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com



These users thanked the author Steve Kinnaird for the post (total 4): SteveCourtright (Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:34 pm) • bcombs510 (Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:43 am) • Hesh (Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:49 am) • Colin North (Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:46 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:57 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5924
Hi Brent,
I believe you are right. As resources get depleted people have to settle for less. It is then they will realize that what they have been told by the timber merchants is required of a first quality top isn't necessarily true. To a great extent it is the luthier supply business that has sold the idea that the finest tops have uniform color,absolutely no "runout", straight tight grain lines with uniform spacing across the entire top - and only stiffness as a secondary consideration to grading. That a limited number of tops have those qualities allows them to be called "Master Grade" and have prices well above the "lower grades".
There is one virtue to the present system for the buyer who doesn't subscribe to that nonsense. Many perfectly fine soundboards can be purchased at bargain basement prices because they don't meet all those criteria.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:34 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:13 pm
Posts: 832
Location: Durango CO
First name: Dave
Last Name: Farmer
City: Durango
State: CO
fretless Flamenco?
Attachment:
WIN_20170419_14_56_49_Pro - Copy.jpg



Just before this thread, I was turning some jet-black Ebony into shavings and thinking about this scarcity dilemma. I'm feeling low on good bridge and fingerboard blanks and have been contemplating trying to snatch up a bunch so I can continue to replace parts with like quality.
Joining the mad grab for what's still around sure doesn't feel like part of the solution. :?
I don't think we can count on markets to keep from driving guitar resources into oblivion.

Is it sacrilegious here to say that music and old growth forests are more important to me than pretty guitars?


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



These users thanked the author david farmer for the post: Hesh (Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:36 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:15 pm 
Offline
OLF Sponsor
OLF Sponsor

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:26 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Craig, Alaska
First name: Brent
Last Name: Cole Sr
City: Craig
State: Alaska
Zip/Postal Code: 99921
Country: USofA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
David, I sure hope the consensus would be like your thoughts, broad, and NOT be of sacrilegious nature. That the natural beauty of a natural product is worked with and even enhanced with artistic creativity, and that the sound be the paramount goal to achieve from the "soundboard". And doing this while protecting our last remaining old growth temperate Rainforest with responsible, sustainable harvest and utilization. We'll continue do what we do, with what the forest gives up naturally, and dissect the material into great tonewood products, that craftspeople and artisans, will turn into fine works of musical art.



These users thanked the author Alaska Splty Woods for the post: david farmer (Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:27 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:20 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 3081
Steve Kinnaird wrote:
One of the freedoms we have as builders--when we get the chance to build what we'd like--is to use material like this. Steve


Amen to that!
I'd even go further and say get out of the rut, build what you like, use wood that appeals to you.
You will never be able to compete with Corporations anyway...they give awa...have things like "endorsements" and "advertising budgets". They will beat you down. At least having a guitar in a shop that isn't another Dreadnot on a wall of Dreadnots will set you apart...



These users thanked the author Haans for the post (total 2): david farmer (Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:27 am) • Hesh (Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:37 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:41 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:45 pm
Posts: 4337
Location: United States
Ok, here's the back of the guitar.
And you bet, I used what appealed to me!

Image

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com



These users thanked the author Steve Kinnaird for the post: david farmer (Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:26 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com