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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Hey, does anyone know of a good satin varnish with a good amber tint? Wipe on preferred.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Koa
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Shellac? Kinda the original, isn't it? On the plus side, it can be also applied as a high gloss through a process called "french polish".


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:26 pm 
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I have applied shellac via a pad, then wet sanded with olive oil, and it turned out well. It was a nice satin finish.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:15 am 
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Following up on a part of this I forgot to address: if you want a noticeable amber tint with shellac, you should probably use something other than super blonde. Lemon is good. Orange might be too dark for some tastes. At some point, you have to look at the whole dewaxed vs. waxed decision, dewaxing yourself, decoloring yourself, all of that. The Tom Bills online course for French polishing covers that stuff really well.

I think some folks add artificial tint to shellac, but I have never tried it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:00 am 
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Koa
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https://generalfinishes.com/professiona ... Wtx1e4pDMI

Nice warm amber tint -- looks pink in the can.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:45 am 
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Cocobolo
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I've used tung oil from Lee Valley on necks for quite a while. Nice wipe on finish with good results.
You can build the sheen to whatever you like.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:49 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Well, no shellac. This is for the Tacoma Thunderchief Bass. I'm thinking some kind of oil based Varnish is going to be the key. Something instrument grade.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:31 am 
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Just a suggestion, Tru-Oil can be tinted.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:25 am 
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Koa
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Are you trying to match an existing finish, or what about a Tacoma Thunderchief requires an oil finish?

I'm not pushing shellac, I'm just curious.

FWIW: I thought "varnish" historically meant a shellac and oil mixture.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I should not have said satin. Low gloss is more like it.I have never used Tru-Oil. And just applying shellac is to gummy.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Worth a look? http://www.liutaiomottola.com/PrevPubs/WipingVarnish/WipingVarnish.htm
So what varnishes have you wiped on before?

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:14 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Colin North wrote:
Worth a look? http://www.liutaiomottola.com/PrevPubs/WipingVarnish/WipingVarnish.htm
So what varnishes have you wiped on before?


Yes, that looks good. Wonder if it tints amber?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:22 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCMNqL5laEg

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:27 am 
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Koa
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I have not yet gotten to the point of proofing and sourcing the general material on varnishes in the finishing section, but it is fascinating that we have so many terms for clear finishes! Varnishes in particular seem designed to confuse!

Quote:
Varnish may be used- like lacquer - as a generic term for any clear finish, but strictly speaking, a varnish is any resinous solution that cures or dries to a protective finish. Modern usage is that the solvent matters - varnishes that have an oil solvent are referred to as oil varnishes, and varnishes which use alcohol -as did many of the older instrument varnishes - are spirit varnishes. Shellac - along with a long list of other resins -- anime, benzoin, copal, damar, gum arabic, gum mastic, and sandarac to name seven common resins -- may be used singly or in combination for spirit varnishes.

Oil varnishes have their resins dissolved in oils, and date from the Middle Ages when craftsmen discovered that amber could be heated in linseed oil to produce a naturally polymerizing finish which was much more solvent and weather-resistant than other available finishes. Today, oil varnishes are the finishes which most craftsman think of when 'varnish' is mentioned, and the resins used include both natural as well as synthetic resins such as phenolic and urethane. Shellac - an insect-derived resin common in spirit varnish formulations - is not easily dissolved in most oils, so is not generally used as a resin component in oil varnishes.

Oil varnishes are further classed as long oil, medium oil, and short oil, with long oil varnishes (50 to 100 gallons of oil to every 100 pounds of dry resin) referred to as spar varnishes for their greater flexibility and ability to absorb impacts, and and some short oil varnishes (5 to 12 gallons of oil per 100 pounds of resin) referred to as table-top or rubbing varnishes due to their ability to resist scratching and to be rubbed out in a reasonable period of time to a desired level of gloss. In between are the medium-oil varnishes, with 12 to 40 gallons of oil per 100 pounds of resin, which possess some of the attributes of both spar and rubbing varnishes (reasonable flexibility with decent scratch resistance).

Wiping varnishes like TruOil and Watco use long or medium oil varnishes as a base, but add quite a bit of solvent, so while they may be padded on (versus brush or spray), it takes many, many coats to build to a finish which can be level sanded and buffed to a high gloss. Most conventional varnishes can be thinned for pad or rubbed application.

In general, oil varnishes provide a very high degree of protection once fully cured, may be brushed, sprayed, or wiped on, may be built up enough to allow the finish to be level sanded and rubbed or buffed out to a desired level of gloss, and are more sweat, solvent, and impact resistant that conventional instrument lacquers, but less so than the latest generation of finish technology such as two pack urethanes or polyester finishes. Unfortunately, classic phenolic/tung short oil formulations - easy to apply, relatively quick to cure, and easy to level sand and buff - are rapidly disappearing from the marketplace as finishes with lower or zero VOC content become available.


Corrections and additions welcome - I've been remiss in my building guide editing duties, but hope to catch up during those quiet early mornings at the beach ...less than two weeks to go!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I really appreciate that explanation.


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