Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:17 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: 12 string string spacing
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:55 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5398
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Done a search and not much luck.
Building a first 12 string, looking at 48mm (1.88") width at the nut.
From memory of posts I've seem, maybe here or elsewhere, thinking 2.5mm spacing between the E/A/D/G octaves, and 2mm for the B/E strings, with 3mm octave/unison string spacing at the saddle to allow for pin widths.
Sound about right??

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:57 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 951
First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I bought a string-spacing guide from 'Luthiers Cool Tools' for a reasonable price last year. Two-sided pattern, 6-string on one side, 12-string on the other. Might be worth the investment.

_________________
Peter Havriluk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:49 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 2124
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have three twelve strings but frankly can't remember the exact spacing that I used when I built them. I'll check later today and post the measurements (and string gauges that I'm using).



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: Colin North (Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:01 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:03 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5398
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
phavriluk wrote:
I bought a string-spacing guide from 'Luthiers Cool Tools' for a reasonable price last year. Two-sided pattern, 6-string on one side, 12-string on the other. Might be worth the investment.

Thanks, but never got on well with that type of string-spacing guide, tried it before.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:07 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5398
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Freeman wrote:
I have three twelve strings but frankly can't remember the exact spacing that I used when I built them. I'll check later today and post the measurements (and string gauges that I'm using).

This may save you the trouble? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44733&p=591414&hilit=12+string+pair+spacing#p591414

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:07 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:46 pm
Posts: 501
First name: Mark
Last Name: McLean
City: Sydney
State: New South Wales
Zip/Postal Code: 2145
Country: Australia
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
i like the string spacing ruler - but even if you don't want to use it there is useful info on the StewMac trade secrets pages
http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Guitar_Nut_and_Saddle_Setup_and_Repair/Using_the_String_Spacing_Rule_for_guitars_and_mandolins.html

It includes the suggestion to mark it out on an index card, so you can play around with it a bit before transferring it to the nut.

Also, if I was building a 12 string, I would definitely go for the option of a 6 pin bridge (2 strings per pin). 12 pins in a bridge gets pretty crowded and makes it harder to get the spacing intervals right at the other end (plus being bigger, heavier and more weakening of the top with holes).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:59 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 2124
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Colin North wrote:
Freeman wrote:
I have three twelve strings but frankly can't remember the exact spacing that I used when I built them. I'll check later today and post the measurements (and string gauges that I'm using).

This may save you the trouble? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44733&p=591414&hilit=12+string+pair+spacing#p591414


Yup, that sounds right. 0.095 is about what I remember (I was going to say 0.100) As I look down thru that thread there is no way I could play that falcate braced one - that nut simply wouldn't work. The compensation at the nut and saddle are interesting on it, but in my humble experience just compensating at the saddle has worked fine. One of the joys of a twelve string is that some of the strings are just slightly out of tune with each other, one of the frustrations of a twelve string is that some of the strings are just slightly out of tune with each other.....

I'm also going to say the you probably won't notice a few thousands difference in spacing as long as each pair is close enough to fret with one finger tip and play with one down or up stroke, and each pair is far enough from the next that you don't end up playing extra strings when you don't want to.

Here is the nut on the Stella clone - string are probably 0.013 to 0.056 (which is huge for a twelve), tuned to C or C# depending on my mood and finger strength.

Image

Not a great picture of the slotted saddle and tailpiece.

Image

If I was ever going to make another twelve I would make the saddle as thick as I could (1/4?) to have lots of bone for doing the compensation and if I was doing a pinned bridge I would put the primaries forward, both for break angle and so the thinner octaves can sneak by the pins.

It will be interesting to see what you build, Colin



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: Colin North (Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:31 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:26 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:35 pm
Posts: 2951
Location: United States
First name: Joe
Last Name: Beaver
City: Lake Forest
State: California
Focus: Build
I believe the Martin Custom shop still uses 1-13/16" to 1-7/8" at the nut and 2-5/16" at the saddle.

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:33 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5398
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Good to know Joe.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:35 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 3081
While looking for some string spacing in my jumble of files and notes, I ran across these string gages for different tunings on a 26-1/2" scale for Stella's. Might be useful to someone...

Image


The builder was a Brit by the name of RBrown. He made some fine guitars. Anyone familiar with him? Here's somebody with with the initials of CK and one of his BBQ Bob 12's...

Image

Looks like a really fine 12 string.

Image



These users thanked the author Haans for the post: Colin North (Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:52 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dan Miller and 48 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com