mqbernardo wrote:
I’m having trouble picturing something bendable in 3 axis...
It was the "on all 4 axis. " which threw me for a second... X,Y.Z and T (time)
Very Star Trek......
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| Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50240 |
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| Author: | Greg Maxwell [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Has anyone heard from Ryan Guitars about how soon the multi-axis linings are going to back in production and available? I love them and would hate to go back to the traditional kerfed linings, but work must go on and I can't wait forever. I called the shop a few days ago and haven't had a reply, but I remembered he's at NAMM. |
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| Author: | dofthesea [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
I was looking to purchase some as we...... Barb told me it would be available shortly after Namm |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
The linings I milled out of bending ply behave like multi axis linings. After installing them I have been coating them with a thinned coating of epoxy. It seals the micro cracks and firms up the surface. I routed an ogee profile on them to improve the look. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Good to hear. I don't need any at the moment but emailed them the other day but hadn't heard back yet. Looking to stock up when it's available. |
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| Author: | WilbPorter [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Is this just a gimmick or does it have some scientific justification? |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
it's not a gimmick, it works well. It's just easier to install in tightly curved areas such as cutaways where the curve rises and falls with the dome of the soundboard/back as it can flex out of plane unlike standard linings/kerfing. BTW: has anyone tried Allied's Flex kerfing? |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Has anyone who makes their own linings tried cutting the contours into them similar to what is done before bending the sides? For solid linings that might not be too difficult to do with the side template. |
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Clay S. wrote: The linings I milled out of bending ply behave like multi axis linings. After installing them I have been coating them with a thinned coating of epoxy. It seals the micro cracks and firms up the surface. I routed an ogee profile on them to improve the look. This piqued my curiosity. Can you post a picture of these plywood bindings? Can't visualize what you are talking about. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Here are a couple of pics. The linings will bend in both directions. They can be wrapped around the sides of the guitar and bent to follow the contour of the sides. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
WilbPorter wrote: Is this just a gimmick or does it have some scientific justification? It looks appealing to me since it bends on all 4 axis. I have been having difficulty with my standard OM, not even a cutaway getting enough pressure to avoid gaps where the kerfing wants to curve up and pull it away from the side despite being pre-bent and wet first. I'm definitely going to give it a try for that reason, the peace of mind is worth it for me. Lately I've had to cut relief into the reverse Kerfing I'm using now in the upper bout to get acceptable contact with the entire height of the kerfing. It was either that or overclamp and overclamping is never a good thing. I'm pretty anxious to give it a shot even though it's a little more pricey. It sucks to look at an otherwise perfect looking box with breaks in the kerfing. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
"Is this just a gimmick or does it have some scientific justification?" It is mostly an aesthetics thing. Guitars with a curvy plantilla and a highly arched back tend to need breaks in the linings to make them follow the rise and fall of the sides. Having linings that bend in both directions allows them to do this without breaks and can give a more uniform appearance. Low archings and a dreadnought shape kind of obviate this need. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
That's very interesting, Clay. I have some bendable ply (Wiggle board), but it only bends in two axis. Alex |
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
I am also confused. Bend Ply for me is plywood that will bend easily in ONE direction and is stiff in the other. If looking down on a sheet it would bend left to right, but not top to bottom. It also looks like you have bend Ply that is at least 1/2” thick (or 12mm). While relatively bendy, the stuff I’ve seen wouldn’t be flexible enough for a cutaway bend or tight waist. I assumed that you were cutting kerfs in it. Instead it looks like you were just ripping strips and glueing them in (with the ogee of course). So that all begs the question of what is the product you are using and where do you source it. A product one could simply rip strips on without pre-bending or cutting kerfs in would be a huge time saver Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Has anyone who makes their own linings tried cutting the contours into them similar to what is done before bending the sides? For solid linings that might not be too difficult to do with the side template. Yup, it works well, but the A4 linings are a whole lot easier. Still at 30$US plus shipping it adds up.. Curious about your bendy ply too... |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
The bending ply I used is 3/8ths in. thick - the stuff you typically laminate to another sheet of bending ply (to hold the shape) to come up with 3/4 inch for cabinet work. I cut the strips 5/8ths in. wide, and in the second picture you can see about how far they will bend in the "wrong" direction at this width (approx. an inch in 12). I didn't cut any kerfs in the material, and I don't see how they would help - in the direction we normally bend linings the ply is more then bendy enough. They were simple to make. I would rout the profile on both edges of the sheet, rip them off , rout the edges again, rip again. I used an ogee but other profiles could be used. I used scrap I scrounged. 1/4 inch bending ply with a simple round over might look like reverse kerf lining without the kerfs. Once installed they seem to have the stiffness of reverse kerf linings (or maybe a little stiffer). Some people questioned the wisdom of gluing the top and back plates to what is essentially end grain. When gluing on the top and back I coat the gluing surface of the lining and allow it to soak in for a couple of minutes, then recoat it and apply the plate. The gluing area of the typical liners may not make this necessary, but "sizing" the material only takes a couple of minutes, so why not? |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
I've glued bender ply up to get required thickness and found it to be very stable and hold it's shape once dry. e.g. once glued to a rim as lining it will be nice and stiff |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
What glue are you using to glue the plates, Clay? Alex |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Interesting I've never seen those before. Does it harden up once glued? I just Googled it and what I found doesn't look like that? https://ryanguitars.com/luthier-supplies/#kerfing |
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
Interesting. We have a partial hijack, so I won’t keep asking details about the flex Ply. I guess I’ll just buy some and experiment. Thanks! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
"What glue are you using to glue the plates, Clay?" Generally I use Titebond (original)on the plates, but HHG works too (ukuleles). P.S. Sorry about the hijack - I didn't think it was too far off topic. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
I’m having trouble picturing something bendable in 3 axis... |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
mqbernardo wrote: I’m having trouble picturing something bendable in 3 axis... It was the "on all 4 axis. " which threw me for a second... X,Y.Z and T (time) Very Star Trek......
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
mqbernardo wrote: I’m having trouble picturing something bendable in 3 axis... Indeed, I should have said all four directions. 
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
North, east, south, up, in, out, and down? |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ryan multi-axis kerfed linings availability |
meddlingfool wrote: North, east, south, up, in, out, and down? Forward and backward as well  For others interested I did get an email back this morning saying that he is ~4 weeks out from having them available again. |
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