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 Post subject: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:14 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1700
So what is YOUR method for filling any gaps you may find between the top and the binding after it’s glued in? How do you keep the above method from staining the top / binding darker in that area?

I know I know... the BEST way is not to HAVE any gaps...



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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:29 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:53 pm
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Location: Canada
mostly lacquer sticks


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:33 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:24 am
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what type of glue are you using to attach binding? what material, wood or plastic, are you binding with?



These users thanked the author jack for the post: Lincoln Goertzen (Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:12 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:36 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
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I use thin CA to glue my binding in. I can fill some gaps at this point with CA but I try to not have any gaps. Scrape any CA off from top or sides. During finish if anything appears I just drop fill with lacquer which obviously doesn't stain.

One of the things that has been really helpful is to prebend all of my binding in the same mold that I bent the sides. In the case of electric guitars I make a mold just to bend the binding - if the binding fits and you don't have to force it you won't have gaps.


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:52 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:21 pm
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Location: Alexandria MN
LMI FCA and spot glue miters with CA. Tightbond for wood.

If the sides are a dark wood fill with dust and CA. If light I am in trouble. A bwb purfling on the bottom edge makes it easier to fill a gap with light wood.

Making sure every other piece of tape pulls down, especially in problem areas like the upper bout on the back has helped me some.

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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

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First name: Ed
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City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
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i use titebond for bindings.

After pulling off the tape from a binding job, I carefully inspect looking for gaps.

If there is a small gap here and there, there are fixes.

You can usually warm the area in question to loosen the glue, with either an iron or a paint stripper gun, put a little bit of fresh glue in, and reseat the binding in either direction. I use a 1" dowel slightly crowned on the end to push the binding inward and down. Heat, push, then push where the tape is. If the tape wiggles, push and tape, push and tape, until the taep stops wiggling, then you know the binding is seated flush.


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Koa
Koa

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jack wrote:
what type of glue are you using to attach binding? what material, wood or plastic, are you binding with?

Binding glued w titebond. Bubinga with a cedar tomorrow on this one


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These users thanked the author SnowManSnow for the post: jack (Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:49 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Koa
Koa

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meddlingfool wrote:
i use titebond for bindings.

After pulling off the tape from a binding job, I carefully inspect looking for gaps.

If there is a small gap here and there, there are fixes.

You can usually warm the area in question to loosen the glue, with either an iron or a paint stripper gun, put a little bit of fresh glue in, and reseat the binding in either direction. I use a 1" dowel slightly crowned on the end to push the binding inward and down. Heat, push, then push where the tape is. If the tape wiggles, push and tape, push and tape, until the taep stops wiggling, then you know the binding is seated flush.

I think I’ll try this.
What happened on a spot is the binding got twisted as I was taping it in... so it is skewed. If I can loosen the glue I should be able to straitened it


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Use a hand or finger plane to make small shavings of whatever colored binding or purfling you want to fill next to. Cut or match the length of the shaving to that of the gap. Wipe the area with a couple passes of shellac to prevent discoloration, seat the shaving, and wick in cyanoacrylate. Level with a chisel and you are done.


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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First name: Brad
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I use titebond on binding normally. Going to try fish glue here soon, but anyway... I do like Ed recommends and reheat the area with a heat gun.

A tip though... if the tape isn’t working to get it seated after reheating, try twill tape like Robbie O’Brien recommends. I’ve been able to close up some heinous gaps in parlors where the waist is really tight by using the twill tape. You can pretty much torture it into place. Hopefully the bend and fit is better to begin with on yours, but I had a really bad one once and that fixed it.

FWIW, I’ve moved to using twill tape in addition to some regular tape on binding jobs at the start. I put regular tape and space it about an inch apart and then wrap with twill tape. I haven’t had any gaps since moving to that method. I’ve gotten better about fitting, so it could be that too. Worth a look though.


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These users thanked the author bcombs510 for the post: Pmaj7 (Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:46 pm 
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I've seen the method Ed described used successfully. Definitely worth a try.

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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
If you don't build in any gaps you won't have to fill them. I have tried several different binding materials and glues and have settled on the following - it seems to work for wood, plastic, any kind of purfling.

Seal the top with a coat of shellac. Route the binding and purfling channels (think about the order so you have best support of the router and bit). Clean up the channels so they are perfect. That means the corners are square and there aren't any little fuzzies.

Put the binding + purfling sandwich in the channels and tape in place (include the teflon strip if you are doing pearl). I use low tack 1 inch masking tape with gaps about 1/2 between pieces. Get the miters and end piece and everything else perfect. Make sure the binding and purfling fit the channel pefectly. Push against it with a little block of wood, if it moves it isn't perfect. Take it out and fix it.

I want the binding and pufling to stand proud of the top and sides by a couple of thou - you can feel it but hardly see it. I want to be scraping binding back to wood, not the other way around. I'll frequently use a quick clamp at the waist and its often necessary to come up with creative clamping at cutaway horns or around headstock. The goal is the same, you want the binding perfectly tight.

I then put a tiny drop of thin (#10) CA on the binding and purfling between each piece of tape with a pipette. The idea is to put the drop on the sandwich right up to the top but not actually get any on the top wood. It will wick right down between the layers of the sandwich and tightly tack everything to the guitar. If there was any movement with the wood block I'll hold that part of the binding tight while the CA kicks off. I don't use accellerator because I think it can stain the top.

Once the CA has completely kicked pull all the tape and with the pipette run a bead of CA over the entire length and width of the sandwich. Again, the goal is to get it right to the edge but not go over. Tip the guitar on its side and run a bead on the bottom of the binding.

After that has kicked off, scrape back the binding and purfling to the top and sides - you will be removing the glue that was sitting on the top and leaving just the wood and fiber. I make it a point if I do any sanding to always scrape afterwards - you will get a much nicer line with your different colors.

Once in a very great while I will get a tiny gap - they usually don't show up until I'm finishing. Its pretty easy to drop fill with lacquer at that point.

Here is an example - prebent wood binding for an archtop (I bent a couple of extra pieces so I could pick the best one) - these are commercial strips that you can buy from LMII

Image

Binding in place with one ebony purfling line

Image

Head, neck, pickguard and f-holes bound to match

Image

I simply could not have done some of this (f-holes) with something like Titebond


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

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First name: Freeman
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SnowManSnow wrote:
jack wrote:
what type of glue are you using to attach binding? what material, wood or plastic, are you binding with?

Binding glued w titebond. Bubinga with a cedar tomorrow on this one


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Cedar top, coco back, sides, headplate and rosette, coco bining with bwbw purfling. Thin CA

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Gary L. Said:

Use a hand or finger plane to make small shavings of whatever colored binding or purfling you want to fill next to. Cut or match the length of the shaving to that of the gap. Wipe the area with a couple passes of shellac to prevent discoloration, seat the shaving, and wick in cyanoacrylate. Level with a chisel and you are done.

That is the way I do it also. The sides are easy. Just fill the space with shaving, not dust, and CA.

The top is harder but the method is the same. For the end grain areas you have to make shaving from end grain top cutoffs. I usually use Elmer's white wood glue for the top repairs. Just be sure to wear gloves or at least wash your hands well. The glue will darken with the slightest dirt.

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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:17 am 
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I do what Freeman does but don't forget to put a coat of shellac on after the binding channels are cut so CA doesn't get into the top wood.

I learned pretty quick to avoid gaps but sometimes there will be a small void that I can usually just drop fill. I've used most of the methods here and they all have their place; use whichever is appropriate for the situation.

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These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post: Clinchriver (Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:25 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:08 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

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Gaps in the binding against the top can be hard to hide. If you use a dark wood binding for small gaps you can use a paste made from sawdust and the finish material you are going to use. The finish material has enough "stick" to act as a binder and is less likely to cause staining problems or be off color.



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post: SnowManSnow (Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:35 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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How I do.
https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015 ... orial.html

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These users thanked the author B. Howard for the post: SnowManSnow (Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:35 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Koa
Koa

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Small gaps filled and binding installed :) thanks for the tips guys. Great advice
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

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First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
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Country: Canada
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Status: Professional
Looks good!



These users thanked the author meddlingfool for the post: SnowManSnow (Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:32 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:11 am 
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SnowManSnow wrote:
Small gaps filled and binding installed :) thanks for the tips guys. Great advice
Image


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Looking good - Plain Myrtle?
Got one on the bench just now, and some Bubinga bindings looked out to use strangely enough.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:32 am 
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Koa
Koa

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Colin North wrote:
SnowManSnow wrote:
Small gaps filled and binding installed :) thanks for the tips guys. Great advice
Image


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Looking good - Plain Myrtle?
Got one on the bench just now, and some Bubinga bindings looked out to use strangely enough.

Its tamarind Wood. I haven’t built with it before. It feels and bends a lot like Chechen from my limited experience.
Myrtle is definitely on my “to do” list though:)


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These users thanked the author SnowManSnow for the post: Colin North (Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:48 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:34 am 
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Koa
Koa

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meddlingfool wrote:
Looks good!

Thanks Ed. Making a pretty guitar is fairly easy. Making one that sounds good is fairly easy, and making one that feels good isn’t bad......but putting all those variables together proves difficult haha;)



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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:32 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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First name: Ed
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It'll come with repetition...


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:12 am 
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Koa
Koa

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Spruce top, walnut binding had gaps. I used Elmer's white school glue with sanded up spruce from the top. Possibly, I slightly thinned the glue with water--don't remember. I use the school glue instead of the production glue because school glue generally dries clear and colorless. I was pleasantly surprised how well it did. I still have the guitar and I cannot find the spots that I repaired.


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 Post subject: Re: Your method for....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Koa
Koa

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meddlingfool wrote:
It'll come with repetition...

Yessir.


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