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Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
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Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Well, I love it, I think. I used a Preval sprayer in the backyard to do this guitar, which did an astonishingly bad job of laying out an even coat. As a consequence of trying to level out the runs here and there, there were a few burn throughs. The only thing I don’t like is that it’s doesn’t meld into itself, so burn through cover ups leave witness lines in just the right light, sadly.

I did 6 coats. 3 day 1, sanded back to 320, then 3 more. I chose to level sand it all by hand starting with 600 grit. A mistake, I believe. I actually think a ROS would have done a better job faster. As it was, the leveling took about 14hrs. And the buffing about 3, I’m pretty sure that even though I sanded to 2000, I was still buffing out 600 grit scratches. Sanding by hand leaves deeper scratches I feel.

Overall, I’m happy with the results and it will only take a few more kicks at that can to get it right. Anyone with a real spray gun will have a much easier time I bet.

The most important aspect is that I was able to get the finish to .003, and the guitars is much happier for it.

Anyway, it’s worth looking into IMO.

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Author:  Carey [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Looks good to me!
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Nice Ed, I'm a fan of Royal Lac too although of the French polish variety.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
I've padded it on one guitar so far and I liked it. That looks great, what is the back/sides?

Also how do you measure the thickness?
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Nice job Ed. You need a buffing machine??


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Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Hi Ed,
If you could do that with a Preval sprayer think of how much quicker you could do it with a $15 HF jamb gun and a $99 pancake compressor. I'm not saying that is the end all be all of spray equipment, but it does beat "rattle can" finishing by a long shot.
Nice looking finish job no matter how you did it!
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Carey,

Thanks, I think it's pretty nice looking finish. Not plasticky like some others I've tried.

Steve,

I'd like to learn how to do that, it seems you could get it even thinner.



Jfmckenna,

I would like to learn how to do that as well. In fact, that was my original intent with this guitar. I tried a couple runs at it with various dilutions with various solvents, it was a non starter. That's why I got the Preval, I figured it couldn't get any worse. I watched all the vids, but did not get results.

Thickness is measure by measuring a selection of chips from clearing the neck and bridge area. I really liked how a sharp chisel wielded just right popped the finish off the wood. The last finishes I did myself were WB, and you could peel them off the wood like a decal. This stuff held fast, but broke off.

Rod, got one? I did have to 'borrow a cup of sugar' from David Ianone to get this one buffed, he's got the nice 5hp Larrivee style Cadillac machines, whereas I've got a 3/4 hp Caldwell. It took 45 minutes of buffing just to do the faceplate on my machine. I know of an old Larrivee one for sale, but it's just the parts with no wheels.

Clay,

This was just an experiment to see if I liked the finish in the first place, I'll have to consider how much I want to invest to make it go. I'd still rather contract out, but the .003 film thickness is pretty important to me. I've only had 4 shiny orders against ~275 satin orders since I started he satin brand.

But those prices seem attractive. Would it be too much trouble to ask for links to the specific things you are speaking of? I have a delta compressor and a gun somewhere, but the problem was the tank would empty before you got even halfway through a panel, then wait ten minutes to get full, spray, empty wait, etc. So if you know of a cheap 'getaround' I'd be interested. If I got more orders for gloss, I would just buy a Fuji q4. There may be some locals who would let me borrow/rent their booths for a day as well.

All in all, a step forward for me at least.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Hi Ed,
I couldn't find a link to the HF gun but here is one that is similar:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Husky-Siphon-F ... :rk:6:pf:0

The smaller high pressure guns tend to use less air and give better atomization than HVLP guns. I think just about any compressor would keep up with these small guns, especially on a small project like a guitar. I wouldn't buy a HF compressor but rather something like Home Depot or Lowes sells- Porter Cable pancake @$99., but you will probably find your's will do O.K.
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
I’ve got one but not 5hp. I’ll bring it out sometime for you.


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Author:  DannyV [ Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Thin finishes rule! 14 hours levelling..... not so much. If you're spraying in your yard, why not just use nitro?
Author:  bcombs510 [ Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
DannyV wrote:
Thin finishes rule! 14 hours levelling..... not so much. If you're spraying in your yard, why not just use nitro?


I didn't catch that before, I was just oogling the pictures. :)

What's happening here that is causing 14 hours of sanding and 3 hours of buffing? Is that specific to this finish? I've never spent that kind of time with endurovar. I have (I think) the same 3/4 horse buffer from Caswell.

Would be interested to hear if those times are normal for you? It could be that I'm just rushing through things. That's totally possible. :)
Author:  Goodin [ Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
bcombs510 wrote:
DannyV wrote:
Thin finishes rule! 14 hours levelling..... not so much. If you're spraying in your yard, why not just use nitro?


I didn't catch that before, I was just oogling the pictures. :)

What's happening here that is causing 14 hours of sanding and 3 hours of buffing? Is that specific to this finish? I've never spent that kind of time with endurovar. I have (I think) the same 3/4 horse buffer from Caswell.

Would be interested to hear if those times are normal for you? It could be that I'm just rushing through things. That's totally possible. :)


I've used this finish on a handful of instruments and really like it. For me leveling didn't take any longer than lacquer. I'd say total level sanding time was about 4-5 hours and maybe 30 min to one hour at the buffer. I did notice that it takes slightly longer to buff out than lacquer, I believe because it doesn't soften up like lacquer does when it cures. Of course, the better the finish is laid out the less level sanding is required. Royal Lac Post Cat does not flow out or level nearly as well as lacquer; good technique and a well set up gun are a must. It's also sticky and makes a mess. Clean up should be done very soon after spraying with alcohol, once it dries it gets really sticky and hard to clean up. At this point alcohol will no longer work and acetone is needed.

Here is my procedure:
Sand, pore fill, seal
4 coats Royal Lac PC about 2 hours apart
Next morning level sand with 320 or 400 grit then spray 4 more coats
Next day sand out any runs and spray another thinned coat or two if necessary
Wait about 5-7 days and then I sand a grit each day starting at 1000 or 800 if necessary.
1000, 1200, 1500, and maybe 2000 grit, then buff. I use the Stew Mac buffer with 14" wheels. Medium Menzerna then fine Menzerna.

I have noticed that the finish starts to shrink back a few days to a week after buffing out and pores will show up. If that's an issue I think doing a second level sanding and buffing session is necessary to remove pores, or wait longer to do the initial level sanding and buffing.

Your finish looks fantastic Ed!

I agree with others about getting a little spray gun. You will need to get a bigger compressor than a pancake compressor though. Go for at least a 20 gallon. Compressor are easy to find used locally for cheap.
Author:  Bobc [ Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Finish looks great. Nice set of curly walnut too. Link to HP HVLP Guns https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore%2Cf%2CEAFeatured+Weight%2Cf%2CSale+Rank%2Cf&q=HVLP+spray+guns
Author:  Bobc [ Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
If you sign up and subscribe you will get catalogs in the mail. They always have these guns n sale.
Author:  LarryH [ Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Beautiful finish!!
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Thin finishes rule! 14 hours levelling..... not so much. If you're spraying in your yard, why not just use nitro?

Danny, maybe I'll try that one day, however nitro is still vulnerable to some folks hands. I picked this stuff at first for the 72hr cure time as I was hoping to get this git done for the last VIGF.

The 14 hrs of levelling was because I did it all by hand with a 1"X1" hard block, as I was afraid of using a power sander. The 3hrs of buffing was likely from the 600 grit I started with. Even though I sanded to 2000, I really don't think I was getting previous scratches all the way out. Next time, I'll take a chance on an ROS.

As for being 'normal times' I don't know. It's been donkeys years since I did a gloss finish myself.

Thanks for the link Bobc.

Thanks Larry:)
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Very nice guitar and finish Ed.

I did a test panel with PC Royal Lac over a year ago. it still looks good.

What did you use for pore fill? They say epoxy (my usual) can be a problem down the road, so I am still trying to figure that part of the process out.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
Is that curly walnut? I would have guessed Australian Blackwood
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shiny PC Royal-Lac...
I used epoxy. I hope it's not a problem down the road...
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