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https://www.amazon.com/Super-Glue-Fix-A ... l+adhesive

Has anyone ever used this product for binding. It is local to me, and cheap. I am in the middle of binding my first guitar, using plastic and vinyl purfling and binding, and am out of Duco. I have a test piece of binding glued and taped to a piece of spruce top cutoff, but it will most likely take quite a while to cure.

FWIW, it smells like model glue.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

You have an ACE or similar close by to you? I'd stick with the old reliable like Duco.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Yes, we have an Ace. I'll check there. Checked Lowes and it is not stocked at my local.
Thanks.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

You have to be careful with superglues. I usually use Locktite brand. When the Walmart I shop at was out of stock I picked up some off brand super glue and used it instead. It worked fine, except that several weeks later the glue turned yellow, and as it had seeped into the end grain it couldn't be sanded out. I wound up doing a burst finish I hadn't planned on.

CA is the best general adhesive we've found for working in plastics - glues wood, fiber, all common binding plastics, and composites. Our experience with big box store CA like Loktite and Gorilla has been terrible - poor cure consistency, etc. GluBoost products are the best we've found, followed by BSI and Mercury. For binding, we tack with BSI thin and glue with GluBoost thin (nice, long open time and a little higher viscosity avoids runs inside the body).

For ivoroid, tortoid, and other cellulose nitrate materials (black, white, and cream cellulose nitrate) glue well with Duco because they are soluble in acetone (Duco is just gelled acetone - nothing else in the way of hotter solvents). For vinyl, ABS, and ABS/PVC alloys like Bolteron which do NOT glue well with Duco, IPS Weldon 4784 (Low VOC version of Weldon 16), or StewMac's version, Bind-All, has the hotter solvents needed to reliably glue these materials.

We do not use or recommend contact-adhesive-type binding cements like LMII's FCA or the adhesive Martin has been using on their guitars for the last 6-7 years. Besides seeing our own separations on FCA-glued binding in years past when we experimented with it, we have a constant stream of newer Martins in with ivoroid, tortoid, and even wood bindings separating...and the culprit appears to be the FCA-like adhesive used.

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We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

Ugh. I already glued the back binding. I was wrong, it is not vinyl, but ABS.
Are we talking WILL NOT glue at all, or prone to failure down the road?

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Mr. Baker:

Neither vinyl nor ABS glues well with Duco, but your prep of the plastic does make a difference on whether the adhesive has enough hold to keep things in place. If the plastic was cleaned of parting compound and other contaminants, as well as toothed with fine sandpaper or Scotchbrite, it should be as reliable as it can be...which is to say it may or may not hold, if Martin's issues with keeping vinyl and Bolteron on their guitars as they moved from cellulose nitrate to ABS (and still using Duco) is any guide.

Good luck

_________________
We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

Thanks, Woodie.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Update.
I did a test of this glue(Fix-All), Duco, and CA on the ABS binding I am using.
I took 3 pieces of the binding and glued them to a piece of topwood cut off.
After about 17 hours to cure, the results I got are encouraging, at least for Duco.
First, the bad. The FixAll is still not cured after 17 hours, and I would not recommend trying to use it in a guitar building application.
The CA is as expected. But the Duco?
I can't find any difference in it's bond vs the CA. Both are solidly glued to the wood, and I cannot pry, push or pull either one of them from the wood by hand. Would the Duco fail if I used a tool to pry with? Probably. But so would the CA, I suspect.
So, at least on this build, the Duco is working just fine.
However, in future, IF I ever use plastic/vinyl/ABS bindings, I will definitely take Woodie's advice to heart and go with something like Stew Mac's Bind All or Weld-on. What i have now is what i have, and it is working. But I can't see a downside to following precaution from another builder with more experience on the subject.
Thanks to everyone who responded.
Much appreciated.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Thanks for this glue rundown, Woodie! This is just the sort of nugget that I add to my running list of key information that I keep in an on-line document (so I can access it any time). Cheers!

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Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana

I have been using FCA for years. Ivoroid and Tortoise only. Have not had issues I am aware of but thanks for the heads up Woodie. FCA loses it's tack pretty quickly so I lay it in with a syringe and 18G needle, use a generous amount with lots of squeeze out and just do short segments at a time, 6" or so.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I did an experiment using CA, Welden 16, and acetone on celluloid and PVC binding.
In my test the CA failed, the Welden was good, and the acetone was superior.
The acetone needs to be wicked between the binding and the wood and quickly taped.
The CA I tried was the Stew Mac thin stuff.
For what it’s worth.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Thin CA can be almost too thin. It seeps in and leaves nothing behind in the joint. I sometimes will follow up the thin CA with some medium. It will fill the joint and stay there.

Will CA work for celluloid?

Nothing better. The BSI thin is perfect for tacking (use GluBoost to set the tacks), then GluBoost MasterGlue Thin (a slightly higher viscosity) for full glue-up, because that slightly higher viscosity avoids runs into the body. Seal the binding channel and surrounding areas with shellac (we use two coats of 1 lb cut super blonde or Platina). And unlike acetone-based glues, there is not waiting time for the plastic to return to nominal size.

_________________
We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

I use Stewmac Bind All on a new or stripped finish restorations. Clean up is not difficult before finishing. But, on a repair to binding with the original finish, I need something that does not damage the nitro finish. Or, I need some advice on applying it to a guitar with original finish in place without getting it on the finish. Any suggestions?

Some luthiers will use Titebond for these repairs, but having had to repair a few of those repairs due to Titebond's issues with adhering to plastics, cured Titebond, and pretty much anything other than clean, bare wood, we use BSI Super-Gold CA based on what I understand was a recommendation from Mr. John Arnold. Super-Gold is an odorless CA formulated for use on clear plastics, and has much less in the way of burn-in on instrument lacquer than standard CAs. Application with a micro-pipette allows accurate control during application, with little/no need need for touch-up, and has proven to be a permanent solution for repairs to separated/loosening binding and purfling.

Because BSI Super-Gold's burn-in on lacquer is less than with standard CAs, we can usually apply, lightly accelerate, scrape, and lightly sand/buff...all without tape or other barrier materials, and with less concern that the glue will damage finish should it run a bit. On a recent, more complex 40-style Martin binding and purfling repair, we did find ourselves used the GluBoost vinyl tape/wax crayon kit for controlling any surface creep with some super thin CA (we needed a few inches of wicking...more than usually needed), but for most repairs with standard thin CAs and especially for BSI Super-Gold, not something which we normally consider necessary.

_________________
We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

Thanks, this has been very helpful.
If I order The BSI Super Gold and some of the Gluboost thin, do I need accelerator from each manufacturer, or is the accelerator interchangeable? I only 1 accelerator is needed, which is better, BSI or Gluboost?

Never mind. I ordered accelerator from BSI and Gluboost just to cover all the bases.
Thanks.

Mr. Burkett:

My apologies for not responding earlier, but it seems as though you have chosen well in terms of options. GluBoost is a wholly unique formulation that avoids the issues with water vapor entrainment in curing CA that presents as a milky or whitish appearance and surface texturing due to an uncontrolled cure of CA adhesives. We use GluBoost where those issues might crop up, and the BSI product where there is less of an issue with appearance or texture.

Note that these CA accelerants have very different carrier chemistry...the BSI product may be applied liberally to a surface without fear of the petrochemical-based, naphtha-like carrier etching or softening shellac or lacquer finishes, while the GluBoost accelerator may damage finishes if applied such that the carrier pools on the surface. This has proven to be far less of an issue than might be imagined, as the cost of the GluBoost product ensures that a careful modulation of the spray head and a light touch becomes second nature once the first $40/month overhead charge for CA accelerant is noted. As always, if the CA used can be allowed to cure without acceleration (shell work is an excellent example of when NOT to force-cure CA), that may be the best option where the extended cure time does not represent a significant hit on either productivity or process.

In summary - GluBoost for anything finish- or show surface-related, and BSI for jigs, fixtures, or other work where some translucence will not be an issue.

_________________
We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

Thanks again, Woodie. No problem on the slight delay. As always, your posts are very helpful and save me a lot of trial and error time and money. In researching this issue, I have watched several videos on CA products, and none are as complete, concise, and to the point as your posts.

After buying some of the BSI Super Gold and the Gluboost, as well as accelerators for each of them, you can be sure I won't be wasting any of it. It certainly won't pool on my finish.