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 Post subject: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:22 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I don't know if you guys do this, but when I run it with the mill head completely level it cuts badly and is very hard to push the wood through without burning.

So it occurred to me that if I tilted the head slightly (1 degree or so) so the cutter dips down at the start of my feed, it makes the cut so much easier and so much less burning.

Do you guys do this with your Safe T Planer? You know, have the table or head tilted so that the infeed side is lower than the outfeed side?

I'll just be sure to tilt my mill head back to level when I'm done...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:57 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Sounds like your cutters are dull. It only takes a tiny bit of dullness (as seen as a slight round-over on the face of the cutter at the edge) to create a burned cut.



These users thanked the author Barry Daniels for the post: Hesh (Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:18 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:09 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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That's what I thought too but I sharpened it with the included grinding wheel, and it still won't cut properly. Not sure why.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:12 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Is this a real Wagner? There are some fakes out there that were not constructed with the proper geometry.


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:31 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I don't think so... it says "Taiwan" on it.

Not sure where I can get the right one since they're not made anymore, and replacement cutters are impossible to find.

It's still a little hard to feed and you have to really force it to not burn otherwise it cuts. Maybe they have to be tilted quite a bit for it to work right... I think the bottom may be a bit too fat which is why it's so hard to feed.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:50 am 
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Cocobolo
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Possibilities - cutters not sharp, taking too much off in a pass. Sounds like you found a solution that works, so the rest is really not relevant.


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:55 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I remembered I had a genuine Wagner Safe T Planer...

I don't know if you saw an old post I made back then called "Wagner Dan-G-er Planer"?

It was the tool grabbing stuff and throwing it after trying to feed it through and it was meeting very high resistance. I ended up shimming the table up at the infeed side and it made a huge difference.

Right now this clone is just taking a bit of an effort to feed, especially at a high depth of cut but it isn't burning the wood nearly as much when I tilt it to about 1.5 degrees...

Thing is, I remember shimming the table quite a bit in order to get the thing to work, like probably placed a 1/8" piece of wood under it. The mill is so well trammed that that huge surface under the tool is rubbing against the piece, which I think caused the tool to burn wood. Maybe I should shave like .005" off the bottom and see if that fixes things.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:23 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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The original Wagner slightly tilts each of the 3 cutter bits at an angle so that they feed into the wood properly. Some of the clone makers missed this important detail and made the cutters flat. The fact that you are having to tilt it to work indicates that this is your issue. Just be aware that tilting the planer will create a slight concave surface instead of flat on your workpiece.


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:31 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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The cutter looks like it has the tilt, maybe not nearly enough? It looks thicker on the cutting side than the non cutting side.

I thought to maybe put a shim under the cutters to tilt it...

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:36 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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The tilt I am talking about is not in the cutters but in the body casting. Each bed that the 3 cutters rest on should be machined so that the outside is tilting down at a slight angle (probably like 3 to 5 degrees)


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:00 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I see what you mean...

While the cutter itself is inclined, it is not nearly enough to make a difference. Perhaps I can grind a bigger angle into it and maybe it will improve it. What I did though is shimmed the cutter. I folded a piece of paper twice and placed it under the cutting edge when tightening the cutter, it made a huge difference in that I don't have to tilt the infeed side nearly as much to achieve the same feed rate, but I still have to tilt it, it's just half a degree instead of 2 degrees.

I will see how I can shim the cutter to get a bigger angle.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:39 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Check to see if the table of the drill press is perpendicular to the quill. I use a bent up piece of coat hanger wire, formed to a right angled 'Z' . Chuck it up, and lower the quill until the end of the wire just touches the table. Rotate it, and see if it touches all the way around. Any angle other than perpendicular can cause the planer to bind up and burn, as you're seeing.

It's usually tricky, if even possible, to adjust the metal tables on drill presses in both axes. Sometimes the table will sag away from the pillar if the height adjuster is not really tight, but often enough they're not perfect. A added a larger auxiliary table made from a sink cutout that can be adjusted using wedges underneath. It's not a perfect solution; it gets out of whack from time to time, but it's fairly easy to adjust. I can't emphasize enough how important it is that this be just right.


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:46 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I am not using a drill press, I'm using a bridgeport mill. The table does not tilt, the head does. It is dead on square because it has to be in order to function as a mill.

But I found using the planer in that state makes it bind because it seems the planer itself is too thick or something. I found tilting it toward the infeed side improves things.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:52 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I fixed my planer.

I took my mill, and first used a rotary table to cut a recess into the aluminum soft jaw as shown in the picture. Then I propped the jaw up with a piece of steel shim, and used the included grinding stone to grind the cutters into a wedge shape.

Image

Now the planer works perfectly. Now it doesn't burn the piece of maple that I would feed into the planer, though the cutter itself could still be sharper.

Image

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Original Wagner Safety Planers are very often on eBay. I bought a 2nd one, just to have a spare, in the original box with all the accessories for about $25.00.

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 Post subject: Re: Safe T Planer tips
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I remember shortly after Wagner stopped making them, they went for 300 dollars or more.

I probably should have looked more carefully before I bought the item on ebay. I thought it was Wagner brand. It was not (and nowhere in the description does it say that).

It's all moot now though, just by putting shims under the unit it accomplishes the same as having angled pocket, though I could probably mill angles into it if I really was concerned.

The biggest problem with the Wagner brand is nobody makes the cutters anymore and none of the ones made by others (including Stewmac) works with Wagner brand. I can try to make it but I'm not exactly sure how to machine HSS, especially tapping threads into it. I have in my mind to simply take a piece of medium carbon steel, braze carbide onto it to make a cutter. Hopefully it will last longer than the HSS ones.

And honestly I do NOT like the idea of re-importing a Taiwanese made stuff! I could have bought it here cheaper.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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