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Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
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Author:  Colin North [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
I've been looking at different epoxies for pore fill, trying to find a clear one that works well as amber ones like Z-poxy may not be so good for some woods.
West systems is not available in a clear epoxy here in UK because the USA allows chemicals we don't, Siivertip is just not available at all.
So far I've tried a couple, and recently BSI glues became available in UK. so I'm trying their FINISH-CURE™ 20 min.
it's intended for wood, and to give a surface ready for primer and paint, so it sounded promising.
So far so good.
It's very thin out of the bottles so mixes easily (1:1 and not so sensitive to a bit of error) but increases in viscosity after mixing for application, and self levels very well.
But they say 8 hours until it can be sanded, so overnight really, but it fitted with my current 2 build stint as it takes me most of the day to sand 2 bodies and necks anyway.
Two coats on a wedge/Cedro neck applied with a gloved finger were enough to pore fill Wenge, quite famous for it's block plane swallowing pores, so I was impressed with that, as I am with it's sanding qualities, it powders rather than pilling on the abrasive.
Pic of the easy bit left to do.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
Looks like it made short work of that wenge. I use System 3 and it looks and goes on just as you have described. So far I would say you have a winner
Author:  violinvic [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
I am finishing up a Wenge dread. Just have to rub it out and set it up. Wenge was avreal challenge to pore fill. I made the mistake of sanding back to bare wood and exposing more craters. No problems with Zpoxy.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
violinvic wrote:
I am finishing up a Wenge dread. Just have to rub it out and set it up. Wenge was avreal challenge to pore fill. I made the mistake of sanding back to bare wood and exposing more craters. No problems with Zpoxy.


I tried sanding to bare wood just leaving the pore fil in the pores and have never been successful, always exposed more pores.
Just clumsy I guess.
Now I sand as best I can, lifting off if I get to the wood and then do a wash coat of the epoxy,
Prefer the look anyway.
Author:  Tim L [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
Colin, Not epoxy but

I just tried a new product named Aqua Coat and really liked the results. It's a clear gel that thins a bit when worked, sets fairly quickly ( they claim 45 minutes ) and cleans up with water. You can find more info on Shellac.Net. Filled a set of quilted Mahogany with 3 coverings and a touch up over 2 coats of tinted shellac and covered with another 2. Sand out was quick, clean and surprisingly easy. Haven't take and pictures yet but will because it really popped the figure in the wood.

I ordered a pint from them to try on a couple of L-00s and hit the bonus when they sent me a quart instead o try it out and set the hook.

Worth a look. No chemicals

T
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
Tim L wrote:
Colin, Not epoxy but

I just tried a new product named Aqua Coat and really liked the results. It's a clear gel that thins a bit when worked, sets fairly quickly ( they claim 45 minutes ) and cleans up with water. You can find more info on Shellac.Net. Filled a set of quilted Mahogany with 3 coverings and a touch up over 2 coats of tinted shellac and covered with another 2. Sand out was quick, clean and surprisingly easy. Haven't take and pictures yet but will because it really popped the figure in the wood.

I ordered a pint from them to try on a couple of L-00s and hit the bonus when they sent me a quart instead o try it out and set the hook.

Worth a look. No chemicals

T

I can get Aqua Coat in UK at around $46 a pint including postage, and may try it.
Please do publish or sent me some pics.
Coupe of questions - you get any shrink back with Aqua Coat and do you need the shellac?
And how much of the quart did you use for your 2 L-00's?
Author:  CarlD [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
I've tried Aquacoat several times and have had little luck actually filling the pores all the way. Narra took six coats and still didn't fill all the way (admittedly huge pores in that wood). It does need shellac as a sealer and instructions suggest between coats too. On one Narra guitar I stripped it off and used West Systems epoxy. It worked and some of it seeped through the pores to the inside they were so "porous". laughing6-hehe
Three coats on Bocote and they still showed up, but not as bad.
I've used up most of the jar, so back to epoxy from now on.
Author:  Tim L [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
Colin I used the 2 coats of tinted shellac sealer, wiped on, mostly to add color. 1st coat of Aqua Coat was put on fairly light and I added another coat the next day that was heavier that filled better, and another heavier coat on the 3rd day. I let it sit overnight before adding more and was fairly light handed on the filler removal after the first coat. There is a minimal amount of shrink, definitely better that paste pore fill, I never used epoxy. For the L00 Mahogany fill I used maybe 100ml tops. I have yet to start finish work on the BR one which will happen after I start spraying the Nitro.

I did post an iPhone photo this morning in another thread right under your post
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
Colin, here's how much Aqua Coat I used from one pint for a rosewood Dred with a hog neck (the one I posted in the What's Happening thread). Not much at all. Two coats were enough. It's really easy to use. I've used oil-based, Timbermate, and ZPoxy, among others.

Image
Author:  olmorton71 [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
I used Zpoxy on a OM build I made out of old (almost lost) black walnut. It stabilized the wood and sanded easily enough. I use aqua coat on most stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
put me down for aqua coat and the lmi water based fillers.
easy to use no smell and on aqua coat 45 min between applications.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
The epoxy I'm using has next to no smell, but there are enough recommendations her to make me want to try it for sure.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
The last guitar I completed was a Wenge 000 and I filled it with Starbond CA. Best filler I've ever used. I might try the Aquacoat some day but CA is incredibly fast and I filled the Wenge in 3 sessions about 30 minutes apart, sand back to wood.

I am building two with BRW now and both BRW and Wenge are known to be crack prone so my hypothesis is that the CA, being a glue after all, might hold the fibers together as an added bonus.

I only tried epoxy once but absolutely hated it.
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
JF--

Can I ask which particular variety of Starbond you used? I am currently experimenting with epoxy pore filling, and I think I might like to also experiment with CA pore filling.

The Silvertip I am experimenting with is pretty easy to work with, in case you ever want to try epoxy again. The trick is getting the ratio right. I go by weight.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
doncaparker wrote:
JF--

Can I ask which particular variety of Starbond you used? I am currently experimenting with epoxy pore filling, and I think I might like to also experiment with CA pore filling.

The Silvertip I am experimenting with is pretty easy to work with, in case you ever want to try epoxy again. The trick is getting the ratio right. I go by weight.


Medium.

https://www.starbond.com/ca-glue/medium ... m-150.html

I sand the wood to 220 and leave the saw dust on the surface then drizzle small-ish section and use an old credit card to squeegee it in across the grain. The CA and left over dust make a slurry. Sand back with 220 and repeat. On the 3rd coat I just used a folded paper towel across the grain to fill in any holes left over and to seal the pores that were packed on the previous layers. After about an hour I sand back to wood and touch up as necessary.

I also work in a breez way where I set up a fan to blow across the work bench and outside the door. It's best to do this work outside.
Author:  bluescreek [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
had an adhesion issue with starbond and lacquer that reared its head 2 years out. won't use it again
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
bluescreek wrote:
had an adhesion issue with starbond and lacquer that reared its head 2 years out. won't use it again

Oh! Not the kind of thing I like to hear. Did you sand back to wood?

These guitars are shellac finished so hopefully I won't see that in a couple years. Time will tell. But I will be weary of using nitro with that filler for sure.
Author:  bluescreek [ Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
I had to refinish that guitar
what I did learn is if you want to use this for a filler it will work better id you
A stain the wood and seal with shellac
B apply the ca I went to glu boost the fill and finis is more flexible
C sand level and reapply if needed.
D seal with shellac or spray the ca with lacquer thinner and spray it with 1/2 and 1/2 nitro right away
then proceed to finish
I have a few guitars out there for over 2 years and are fine
Author:  bluescreek [ Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Experminting with Epoxy pore filling.
I got some input from a person that used black limba and had a hard time filling
so I have to say that like most processes you may need to see what is working for you

I have used Aqua Coat on Rosewood ( Brazilian and EIR , Mahogany . Honduran and African American Black walnut ) all with good results

so please post your results and we can find what does and doesn't work. I will post a video on this soon. Here is one on Pore O paq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev2jN0dDMDU&t=63s
Hope this helps.
Getting the fill down is key to a great finish and I am sure Brian Howard can add to this.
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