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Scarf joint orientation
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52597		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bionta [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Scarf joint orientation
I just glued a neck scarf joint backwards, as compared to my reference (Gore/Gilet Build) which I apparently should have referred to before glueing. Instead of placing the cut surface of the headstock against the back face of the neck shaft, I have that cut surface showing at the fretboard side. So the joint line is visible on the neck shaft down to somewhere around the 3rd fret instead of being seen on the edge of the headstock.

Other than the cosmetic issue does it make a difference? A difference in strength? (Kinda almost seems like it could be stronger. ) Diminished glue adhesion for the fretboard because of the end grain on the surface?

And how negatively would you view the cosmetic issue? Happily, the grain match is pretty good and camouflages the mistake a bit.

It would not be a big deal to cut it apart and redo it but I’m not sure if I should. Would you?
Attachment:
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Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
I think it is a wee bit stronger, and if you can live with how it looks, leave it. There's tons of metal guitars, Jackson, Charver, Ibanez etc., with joints like that...
Author:  doncaparker [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
I think there are people who do it that way on purpose. There will be a C shaped line once you carve the neck. By then, it will be too late to backtrack if you don't like it.

Personally, I would cut it and redo it, but my situation is:

1. I usually wind up cutting a few inches of scrap off the tail end of the neck, so I know there is enough wood to recut on the neck (but make sure you left enough extra length on the head).
2. I have a really easy way to cut and glue scarf joints, thanks to nifty jigs.
3. I don't like the look of the C shaped line under the first few frets.
Author:  jshelton [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
redo it.
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
The Shed Guitar was done like that because I didn't have a long enough piece of wood to do it the normal way. If you laid the cut out right for the normal way then glued it on wrong, your head stock may well be too short. When you carve the neck shape, you get end grain showing between the nut and first fret. Structurally, it all works fine, but if the option exists, I would be re-doing it.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
Quote:
I think it is a wee bit stronger, and if you can live with how it looks, leave it. There's tons of metal guitars, Jackson, Charver, Ibanez etc., with joints like that...


There is no need to redo it, unless you HATE the way it looks. There are literally MILLIONS of guitars out there with this type of joint, and they exhibit no structural issues. It's a proven method of construction.
Author:  bionta [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
Thank you, all, for the feedback. I hadn’t thought about the c-shaped line on the back of the neck. I don’t think I’d like that so I will redo it. Easy now, impossible later. I have plenty of length on both parts of the assembly.

I’m glad to know however that there is really nothing wrong with this structurally. Learning ...

Thanks.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
I've done it that way on purpose a few times, I actually think it looks cool too. Some will say that it might cause issues under the fretboard but as mentioned above this is not an uncommon joint at all and any joint is prone to 'issues.'
Author:  phavriluk [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  one opinion
My opinion: Builder's choice. I like the original pictured configuration, as there is no scarf joint on the headstock. The scarf is back down the neck on a curve in a visually busy area instead of of on the flat side of the headstock. I have a bunch of necks in my pile of parts made just this way. If it was mine, I'd keep it as-is.
Author:  cphanna [ Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
The joint will show somewhere, no matter which way you do it. You've made a good joint. There is no structural reason to change it. As for cosmetics: Where do you want the joint to show? Is it worth it to you to change it?
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
cphanna wrote:
The joint will show somewhere, no matter which way you do it. You've made a good joint. There is no structural reason to change it. As for cosmetics: Where do you want the joint to show? Is it worth it to you to change it?


With classical guitars (where a scarf was more commonly used) the thicker peghead allowed the scarf line to be placed at the "chin" area, and if well done it is barely noticable. The scarf lines on the sides of the peghead are mostly covered by the plates of the tuning machines. If you don't know to look for the scarf you won't see it.
Author:  bionta [ Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint orientation
I decided to remake the joint because of cosmetics. I'm making a 7-string archtop neck and I will use a headplate and a backstrap so if I move the joint line up into the headstock it will only show on the edges of the headstock. Leaving it as is (was, actually) places a visible joint line on the back of the neck shaft which I would not prefer.

Thanks, everyone for your responses. I learned both pros and cons and at another time for another guitar I might make the opposite decision but now at least I have a reason for this particular decision.
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